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Does Religion Drown Us in Guilt and Fear?
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Why???
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Yes, you are right in pointing out that we are constantly bombarded by temptations. The choice is whether or not to give in to them or not.
Either can become a habit.
I often feel so sorry for the rich shallow people who spend their lives in self indulgence, giving in to every temptation that comes their way, whether it is sex, drugs, drink, or publicity, and because they can afford to indulge themselves, they are oblivious of the dangers, and their sad lives are either less than they should be, or they completely destroy themselves and those around them.
Either can become a habit.
I often feel so sorry for the rich shallow people who spend their lives in self indulgence, giving in to every temptation that comes their way, whether it is sex, drugs, drink, or publicity, and because they can afford to indulge themselves, they are oblivious of the dangers, and their sad lives are either less than they should be, or they completely destroy themselves and those around them.
ok, I'm confused.... I read that St Paul was a rabbi.
Many scholars attempt "chronologies" of the life of Paul, yet Acts of the Apostles is a naive fantasy and the Pauline letters of themselves provide few clues in time or place. Bringing Paul's epistles seamlessly into the story of the church proves to be an impossible task, for collectively the letters offer no continuous narrative and no one has any real idea of the sequence of their composition. Hence the enduring "uncertainty" in the origin of the letters and their stark incompatibility with the "authorised" early history of the faith. Pious reflection and wishful thinking assemble the epistles into the "life" of the apostle, delicately extracting a few perceived "facts" from the embarrassing mythology of Acts, as pegs on which to hang the garments. Yet the epistles are themselves full of hyperbole, the inane and the wondrous. Paul, no less than Peter, struts across a stage that exists only in the dreams of those who would speak in his name and rule with his authority. Myth is not truth.
Many scholars attempt "chronologies" of the life of Paul, yet Acts of the Apostles is a naive fantasy and the Pauline letters of themselves provide few clues in time or place. Bringing Paul's epistles seamlessly into the story of the church proves to be an impossible task, for collectively the letters offer no continuous narrative and no one has any real idea of the sequence of their composition. Hence the enduring "uncertainty" in the origin of the letters and their stark incompatibility with the "authorised" early history of the faith. Pious reflection and wishful thinking assemble the epistles into the "life" of the apostle, delicately extracting a few perceived "facts" from the embarrassing mythology of Acts, as pegs on which to hang the garments. Yet the epistles are themselves full of hyperbole, the inane and the wondrous. Paul, no less than Peter, struts across a stage that exists only in the dreams of those who would speak in his name and rule with his authority. Myth is not truth.
Out of my own interest of the guilt and fear thing.... and because I watched the channel 4 programme about global warming hehe....
One of the scientists said something I thought may ring a little bit true of some people.... that global warming and saving the planet has become THE New Religion.... taking over from the diminishing Christian Faith and that the new sin was.... Global Warming... and the sin of humans destroying the world is with carbon emissions. Our forgiveness would be to do something about it.....
One of the scientists said something I thought may ring a little bit true of some people.... that global warming and saving the planet has become THE New Religion.... taking over from the diminishing Christian Faith and that the new sin was.... Global Warming... and the sin of humans destroying the world is with carbon emissions. Our forgiveness would be to do something about it.....
Oh yes ther are new religions popping up all of the time. You've just mentioned one, which is taking on a life of its own far removed from simple good stewardship of the planet, and so much of it is so hypocrtical.
Then look at the wild excesses of consumerism, undertaken with an equally religious fervour. That also enslaves people, through debt an monetary control.
Then look at the wild excesses of consumerism, undertaken with an equally religious fervour. That also enslaves people, through debt an monetary control.
lol.... politics, filling us with guilt and fear any which way they can..... politics and religion. Life is very bizarre.
I hope you're still all reading this.... Naomi and Wizard too lol..... as I want to ask, if you don't mind..... where you stand in yourselves? your beliefs if any?
I am just me. I ask a question through curiosity, and will, with the deepest of respect sent to yourselves.... read your answers to invoke my thoughts...
Thank You for taking the time to write such deepful thoughts..... :-)
B.
I hope you're still all reading this.... Naomi and Wizard too lol..... as I want to ask, if you don't mind..... where you stand in yourselves? your beliefs if any?
I am just me. I ask a question through curiosity, and will, with the deepest of respect sent to yourselves.... read your answers to invoke my thoughts...
Thank You for taking the time to write such deepful thoughts..... :-)
B.
Hello again Beryllium, where do I stand on religion? Hard to answer this without waffling on, but I'll try.
I don't believe in the god of the bible, and I've already explained why, but I do believe there is an explanation for him. Practically all accounts from religions all over the world say the gods came from the sky, and that includes the bible. The gods, I believe were people, or beings, who came from higher civilisations, and those who witnessed their highly advanced technology were in awe of it and afraid of it, and consequently regarded these beings as gods. Whether they came from space, or from somewhere on earth, I don't know, but they came by air (the bible and other ancients texts tell us so) and my guess is they came from other planets. The universe is vast and unimaginably ancient, and it doesn't necessarily follow that the civilisations of every inhabited planet have progressed at the same rate. Even in recent history native tribes have mistaken our airmen for gods because they came in planes and possessed radios, etc - and as we speak our space probes are searching out other planets for us to inhabit when we've finally destroyed this one, so the theory is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
However, I do believe in spirituality, but that's nothing to do with the god of the bible. I don't believe god is to be found in a church, or in a book, or in someone else's words. I'm convinced that everyone possesses a soul that survives death, but that's nothing to do with the biblical god either - it's all part of life and the natural order of the universe. The almighty is not the god of the bible, nor is he concerned with sin, retribution, dire threats, murder, the devil, or showing off and glorifying himself - he, or it, is much bigger than that - too big for us ever to begin to comprehend.
So the simple answer is 'love one another'. That's it!
Sorry, despite my best attempts, I
I don't believe in the god of the bible, and I've already explained why, but I do believe there is an explanation for him. Practically all accounts from religions all over the world say the gods came from the sky, and that includes the bible. The gods, I believe were people, or beings, who came from higher civilisations, and those who witnessed their highly advanced technology were in awe of it and afraid of it, and consequently regarded these beings as gods. Whether they came from space, or from somewhere on earth, I don't know, but they came by air (the bible and other ancients texts tell us so) and my guess is they came from other planets. The universe is vast and unimaginably ancient, and it doesn't necessarily follow that the civilisations of every inhabited planet have progressed at the same rate. Even in recent history native tribes have mistaken our airmen for gods because they came in planes and possessed radios, etc - and as we speak our space probes are searching out other planets for us to inhabit when we've finally destroyed this one, so the theory is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
However, I do believe in spirituality, but that's nothing to do with the god of the bible. I don't believe god is to be found in a church, or in a book, or in someone else's words. I'm convinced that everyone possesses a soul that survives death, but that's nothing to do with the biblical god either - it's all part of life and the natural order of the universe. The almighty is not the god of the bible, nor is he concerned with sin, retribution, dire threats, murder, the devil, or showing off and glorifying himself - he, or it, is much bigger than that - too big for us ever to begin to comprehend.
So the simple answer is 'love one another'. That's it!
Sorry, despite my best attempts, I
naomi, do you believe that these "sky gods" also possess a soul that survives death?
And if the soul survives death then to what end? does it carry on been reincarnated or survive in a different realm?
Where will your soul be in a billion years time?
When did the life of your soul begin? or if its eternal whats it been doing for the last few billion years?
I personally think that you can compare life to a game of football or a game of snooker.If one of these games went on indefinitly then there would be no meaning to the game.The meaning is given to the game because at some stage it will end.Same with life.Its because at some point it will end that we can appriciate it all the more.If I really believed that I will have countless life cycles then I dont think that I would do or achieve half as much as there is always another time to do things if I miss out now.
Also, do animals survive death and is so what animals?
Cats and dogs? worms and slugs? tapeworms and fleas?
jellyfish and amoebas?
do one week old miscarriges survive?
I'm genuinally curious because while it is easy to make sweeping statements about your beliefs it gets harder to sustain them when it gets down to the details
And if the soul survives death then to what end? does it carry on been reincarnated or survive in a different realm?
Where will your soul be in a billion years time?
When did the life of your soul begin? or if its eternal whats it been doing for the last few billion years?
I personally think that you can compare life to a game of football or a game of snooker.If one of these games went on indefinitly then there would be no meaning to the game.The meaning is given to the game because at some stage it will end.Same with life.Its because at some point it will end that we can appriciate it all the more.If I really believed that I will have countless life cycles then I dont think that I would do or achieve half as much as there is always another time to do things if I miss out now.
Also, do animals survive death and is so what animals?
Cats and dogs? worms and slugs? tapeworms and fleas?
jellyfish and amoebas?
do one week old miscarriges survive?
I'm genuinally curious because while it is easy to make sweeping statements about your beliefs it gets harder to sustain them when it gets down to the details
Hi Wizard, yes I know I did - and I'm just about to do it again - and this time you only have yourself to blame!
I wouldn't call them sky gods - they weren't gods - they were simply in possession of technology unknown on earth at that time, and ancient scribes described them, and the events surrounding them, in the only way they could. The evidence is there for anyone who cares to look. Ezekiel 1:4 begins a good account of 'god' arriving out of the sky - from the north - and making a thunderous noise into the bargain, and I have to ask would an almighty god really need to arrive in that manner? Ezekiel does his best to describe what he saw. Ancient Indian texts tell of flying machines too, and many paintings and artefacts have been found suggesting that there was a higher technology on earth in ancient times. If you're interested in having a look at some, check this out. It'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about. http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html.
I believe in the soul because I have experience of 'ghosts' (for want of a better word), and of the ability of psychics. I didn't say we have countless life cycles - again I don't know - but the Buddhists believe that, so perhaps they're right - and in that case there is an ultimate goal, Nirvana - or perfection. Buddhists also believe that depending on a person's performance in life, they are either reincarnated (generally as a wealthier person with a more comfortable lifestyle), or as an animal - and the worse a person has been throughout his life, the lower the animal he comes back as. This is why they won't kill anything - they never know whether or not that slug they're treading on is Great Auntie Flo!
continued ....( told you I was going to waffle!)
I wouldn't call them sky gods - they weren't gods - they were simply in possession of technology unknown on earth at that time, and ancient scribes described them, and the events surrounding them, in the only way they could. The evidence is there for anyone who cares to look. Ezekiel 1:4 begins a good account of 'god' arriving out of the sky - from the north - and making a thunderous noise into the bargain, and I have to ask would an almighty god really need to arrive in that manner? Ezekiel does his best to describe what he saw. Ancient Indian texts tell of flying machines too, and many paintings and artefacts have been found suggesting that there was a higher technology on earth in ancient times. If you're interested in having a look at some, check this out. It'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about. http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html.
I believe in the soul because I have experience of 'ghosts' (for want of a better word), and of the ability of psychics. I didn't say we have countless life cycles - again I don't know - but the Buddhists believe that, so perhaps they're right - and in that case there is an ultimate goal, Nirvana - or perfection. Buddhists also believe that depending on a person's performance in life, they are either reincarnated (generally as a wealthier person with a more comfortable lifestyle), or as an animal - and the worse a person has been throughout his life, the lower the animal he comes back as. This is why they won't kill anything - they never know whether or not that slug they're treading on is Great Auntie Flo!
continued ....( told you I was going to waffle!)
continued ........
I wouldn't attempt to persuade anyone that my beliefs are fact, and whilst I am happy to discuss them, I don't feel the need to argue them, or to sustain them. I don't mind whether people believe it or not. To me, what happened in the past is obvious, and it's the logical explanation for the antiquated belief in supernatural gods. However, because I think there are a lot of frightened and misguided people listening and believing in the claptrap of religious superstition, I do feel the need to argue the case against the nonsense that is the biblical god, and the medieval hocus-pocus surrounding his so-called son, Jesus of Nazareth.
I wouldn't attempt to persuade anyone that my beliefs are fact, and whilst I am happy to discuss them, I don't feel the need to argue them, or to sustain them. I don't mind whether people believe it or not. To me, what happened in the past is obvious, and it's the logical explanation for the antiquated belief in supernatural gods. However, because I think there are a lot of frightened and misguided people listening and believing in the claptrap of religious superstition, I do feel the need to argue the case against the nonsense that is the biblical god, and the medieval hocus-pocus surrounding his so-called son, Jesus of Nazareth.
naomi, I agree about the hocus pocus but am concerned that it could be replaced with more hocus pocus.
Ezekials visions been regarded as spacemen was started by Erich Von Daniken years ago and his books have been debunked many times.(he has since admitted to lying in his works on the grounds of poetic licence)
Ezekial describes "living creatures" (as opossed to machinary) that have four faces and four wings each.These creatures had the faces of a man, a lion, an ox and an eagle.By no stretch of the imagination can I see this as alien life forms.The language is that of religious symbolism.
As an atheist I cant help wondering that you may be replacing one set of superstitious beliefs (the bible) for a more technilogical, superstitious set of beliefs (ufo's)
As regards not treading on a slug in case its great aunty Flo, I wonder if they would attempt to get rid of a tapeworm in case it's great uncle George?
Ezekials visions been regarded as spacemen was started by Erich Von Daniken years ago and his books have been debunked many times.(he has since admitted to lying in his works on the grounds of poetic licence)
Ezekial describes "living creatures" (as opossed to machinary) that have four faces and four wings each.These creatures had the faces of a man, a lion, an ox and an eagle.By no stretch of the imagination can I see this as alien life forms.The language is that of religious symbolism.
As an atheist I cant help wondering that you may be replacing one set of superstitious beliefs (the bible) for a more technilogical, superstitious set of beliefs (ufo's)
As regards not treading on a slug in case its great aunty Flo, I wonder if they would attempt to get rid of a tapeworm in case it's great uncle George?
Wizard, yes I know all about Erich von Daniken, and whatever anyone has said about his books, I think his basic theory has substance. It certainly makes more sense than a supernatural god. As for Ezekiel's description, perhaps if you look at it a different way, you may see what I think he meant - and if you really think about it, you don't need to stretch your imagination at all. We have to begin by bearing in mind that Ezekiel had no conception whatsoever of technology in any shape or form - nothing at all - and the only things he'd ever seen move independently were living creatures. So, he sees this thing coming in a whirlwind from the north, making a tremendous noise like the rushing of great waters, he says (could that noise would be something like the noise a jet engine makes?). He tries to describe it - it moves and independent parts of it move. He's never seen anything that moves for no obvious reason, except something that is alive, so he thought he was seeing living beings, and that's what he described it as. With his non-existent experience, what else could he think?
I've studied this for years, and I do keep an open mind. It isn't superstition - it's history - only most of the world ignores it because it goes beyond the realms of their limited concept of the past. I think Ezekiel recorded exactly what he saw in the only way he could, and it's not religious symbolism. Coming from you, that comment worries me - you sound like Theland trying to worm around an awkward biblical text! :o)
I've studied this for years, and I do keep an open mind. It isn't superstition - it's history - only most of the world ignores it because it goes beyond the realms of their limited concept of the past. I think Ezekiel recorded exactly what he saw in the only way he could, and it's not religious symbolism. Coming from you, that comment worries me - you sound like Theland trying to worm around an awkward biblical text! :o)
I sound like Theland?
naomi, that worries ME.
But seriously are you saying that people in those days DIDN'T use religious symbolism? You say that Ezekiel had never seen anything move except for living things.I beg to differ.Chariots moved.Surley if he was describing a huge chunk of metal (or whatever the spaceship was made off) he would have compared it to a chariot and not to a lion,an ox,an eagle or a man?
Ezekiel also expressly states that this was a vision (a dream like state?) as opposed to actually happening.
I can certainly see where you'r coming from naomi, because years ago I used to think that there may be something in it but nowadays i think that there are LESS things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt off in anybodys philosophy.
Sometimes symbolism is just that..symbolism
naomi, that worries ME.
But seriously are you saying that people in those days DIDN'T use religious symbolism? You say that Ezekiel had never seen anything move except for living things.I beg to differ.Chariots moved.Surley if he was describing a huge chunk of metal (or whatever the spaceship was made off) he would have compared it to a chariot and not to a lion,an ox,an eagle or a man?
Ezekiel also expressly states that this was a vision (a dream like state?) as opposed to actually happening.
I can certainly see where you'r coming from naomi, because years ago I used to think that there may be something in it but nowadays i think that there are LESS things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt off in anybodys philosophy.
Sometimes symbolism is just that..symbolism
oh my oh my :) far too intense for me right now but fascinating (in my favourites now).... I was reading about Samaria (Syria) and Jerusalem(Israel). and then Persia... how entwined all these countries are/were. And Zorastranism? that was Persia?
Sorry Naomi and Wizard, I shall let you get back to your amazing conversation :-) xxx
p.s Thanks for Wiki link :-)
Sorry Naomi and Wizard, I shall let you get back to your amazing conversation :-) xxx
p.s Thanks for Wiki link :-)
Beryllium...never mind Ezekial. (or religion) Can anybody help me out with this..
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Body-and-Soul/H ealth-and-Fitness/Question380710.html
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Body-and-Soul/H ealth-and-Fitness/Question380710.html
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