Which holds most water for you?

[flobadob]

1. Everything we know was created by some sort of a big explosion between something or other that was there before the explosion and such.
2. Everything we know was created by some guy.
3. Everything we know was created by your imagination.

[tranmerekid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HArUmqqiL0s&NR= 1

[123everton]

Ooh I dunno. I can tell you after almost 19 years in the saddle that checkers are like coppers, never there when you need them.
I think she was praying to be somewhere more comfortable than the pavement by Taggart Avenue and especially for her Grand daughter, and I was praying I could get her to a place of safety very soon because I had to go, but could'nt leave her.
He could'nt have timed his appearance better if he tried, that said when he apeared there was a singular lack of blinding sunlight to herald his arrival....
We'll never know, do us a favour, if you get to see the big fella before me perhaps you could ask...

[naomi24]

Everton, don't hold out too much hope, but if you hear the eerie echo of a ghostly clattering keyboard - it'll be me. :o)

[jake-the-peg]

OK the something from nothing thing:

Virtual particles.

You may think that a vacuum is a vacuum there's nothing in it and that's that.

You'd be wrong.

It's actually a sea of particle and anti-particle pairs flashing in and out of existance.

Basically a particle and anti-particle pair can flash in to existance as long as they disappear quickly enough. The more massive the particles the less probable their creation.

That's why bowling balls don't suddenly appear on your desk.

This sounds far fetched but the effect has been demonstrated ( it's called the casimir effect ).

Now consider the idea of an extremely improbable event like a bowling ball appearng on your desk trillions upon trillions to one simply doesn't come close.

Now consider it where there is no time.

If that doesn't fry your brain nothing will

(Note I'm not actually putting this forward as a mainstream cosmological principle - it's an idea a great cosmologist Alan Guth came up with in the 80's - but rather a demonstration of the futility of trying to understand events like the big bang equipped only with common sense)

[Octavius]

Well yes, I�ve seen Casimir�s calculations. He clearly had a lot of time on his hands, perhaps he possessed his own temporal qualities for time displacement!!

[jake-the-peg]

Well it's not just Casimir

Dirac used the concept of displacement theory first to predict the positron years before it was found.

Virtual particles underpin Quantum Electro Dynamics which has been fantastically sucessful in our understanding of the interaction of matter and electromagnetic radiation.


And there's something to be said about having time on your hands.

His calculations fit to between 5-15% of what has been observed.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/9747

Looks like things really can come from nothing

[Octavius]

Well, providing you have two mirrors of ocurse.

My wife can create something from nothing it would seem.

[littleoldme]

So let's see if I've understood this. If a bowling ball did suddenly appear on my desk, instead of thinking "blimey, there's a bowling ball on my desk", I should actually be thinking "blimey, that's the space-time continuum royally bu99ered then, but at least it proves there is no God".

Yes, I think I've got the hang of this astronomy lark. Nuffin' to it, really.

[Octavius]

But, like the God stuff, some would argue it is improbable but not impossible.

The miraculous bowling ball that is, not your cosmological understanding of all that 'is'.

[naomi24]

Thanks Jake. I've come across this before - and I did know that a vacuum isn't actually a vaccum. However particles flashing in and out of our concept of existence aren't nothing - they are something - and somewhere along the line their existence must be attributable to a cause. We may not know what that cause is yet, but hopefully some day we will.

[flobadob]

Well I must discount 3 now as I couldn't ever have imagined the head frying stuff that I've read here.

[Octavius]

If that fried your brain, try putting your head in a vacuum with shooting particles and magic bowling balls!

Nobody has rebuked my theory of the possibility that other universes exist outside of ours, so I�ll think I�ll publish that theory and get it accepted as a probable fact.

[keyplus90]

Nothing came out of nothing. God created the whole universe and first of all it was all together but then separated with a big bang. Science proved and that in the last century and Quran told about it 1400 years ago. And yes we are not alone in this universe and there is life on the other places apart from our planet, again Quran speaks about it and science is working on it. Few already believe in it because of faith, few would believe once (if and when) science ever proves it and the rest will die in ignorance waiting for the proof.

[flobadob]

Octavius, just go and start a cult.

[flobadob]

keyplus, it appears to me that you are stating as fact, things that you seem to simply believe. I've never heard anyone say that the big bang was caused by god, and I don't think any religions claim that as their ideology. For instance christians believe that god made us in his image from dirt. Don't know about muslim beliefs about creation but I'm pretty sure its way off the mark of your theory in your last post.

[Octavius]

I said God lit the fuse that caused the big bang. Does that count?

[naomi24]

Flobadob, you�re right. Keyplus does state as fact things that he simply believes to be true. Additionally, Christians do believe that Adam was the first man - but according to the bible, that�s way off the mark too.

Octavius, good try - but sorry - no.

[jake-the-peg]

Gosh didn't realise this was still running!

Well Naomi I admire your tenacity in belief that everything has a cause.

You are however firmly grounded in 19th Century science. It's pretty much the way everybody thought then.

Then within about 30 years of the begining of the 20th century we had special and general relativity telling us that time was wierd followed by quantum mechanics which showed us how everything was just a bunch of probabilities.

You're not alone though Einstein hated it and spent much of his latter years trying and failing to prove it all wrong.

In the words of JBS Haldane - the universe is not only stranger than we imagine but stranger than we can imagine

[Octavius]

Everyone knows that Adam refers to the birth of mankind -not a geezer in a loin cloth, that just shows a lack of education and understanding.

[keyplus90]

naomi24
Thurs 31/07/08
23:50
Flobadob, you�re right. Keyplus does state as fact things that he simply believes to be true.



Flobadob � here is what Quran says about big bang,

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"

I know for Naomi to believe in something as fact, that has to be written by someone who she could see with her eyes; I am not sure about you.