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Another reason to boycot organised religion
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I heard a radio chat show last week in which a cleric of the C of E described homosexuality as being 'an abomination.' This really annoys me for several reasons. 1) The world has many, many homosexuals, so on the scale of unusuality, it would be seen as a common condition. 2) Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, it just is what it is. I could no easier have a gay relationship myself (as a hetro) as a homosexual could have a hetrosexual relationship. It is equally as unimaginable. 3) What business is it of anyone else? 4) Why do people of the cloth always seem to have such closed, bigoted minds?
What do you all think?
What do you all think?
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My eldest son is gay, all of my other sons are not. They were all brought up exactly the same, they are all equally nice people, they are all happy with who they are and that's fine by me. Being gay is, as has been pointed out, not a lifestyle choice, but just the way you are. What really matters in life is not whether you're gay or not, but whether you are a decent person, and the religiously blinded and spiritually unenlightened banging on about gay people being an 'abomination' only underline in fact how often fundamental religious nutters are not very nice people at all. If God did exist they'd be the first ones on his thunderbolt and oblivion list, not the odd gay lad.
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The views of one priest is no reason to boycott organised religion.
In answer to your points:
1. Many illegal activities are common - doesn't make them right.
2. It is not a lifestyle choice - that is true. Neither is paedophilia.
3. It is nobody else's business, but as the Church is concerned with morals and the interpretation of the Bible, they are entitled to a viewpoint.
4. That is a bigoted viewpoint.
In my lifetime, homosexuality has been a criminal offence and people were imprisoned for it. In a very short time it has gone from a shameful, criminal act to being widely accepted and homosexual marriages are legal.
And hurrah! for that.
I do wonder where it will all end though.
In answer to your points:
1. Many illegal activities are common - doesn't make them right.
2. It is not a lifestyle choice - that is true. Neither is paedophilia.
3. It is nobody else's business, but as the Church is concerned with morals and the interpretation of the Bible, they are entitled to a viewpoint.
4. That is a bigoted viewpoint.
In my lifetime, homosexuality has been a criminal offence and people were imprisoned for it. In a very short time it has gone from a shameful, criminal act to being widely accepted and homosexual marriages are legal.
And hurrah! for that.
I do wonder where it will all end though.
You no more choose to be gay than you choose to have brown eyes. Who am I to tell anyone who they can love?
If you tell me you're gay, my genuine reaction would be 'so what?'. I believe that for a fully equal society that all people regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or shoe size should have the same rights to live, love, work, marry etc etc. They are my opinions, for what they're worth.
Now, the question refers to the C of E. (Noted that it may as well also refer to Catholicism, Islam, one or two branches of Wicca etc etc.) And that's where it gets tricky. I'm firmly of the opinion that if you want to be part of the club, you abide by the rules. The sad thing is that in some instances gay or female people will be excluded in these systems. It's wrong, but that's the rules.
SO - my solution? Form a new church. You don't need to be happy clappy to be a non-CofE Christian; form a new All-Inclusive Church. The established religions will always exclude those who 'don't fit' with their narrow minded bigotry, so leave it behind and move on to concentrate on what the religion actually stands for.
If you tell me you're gay, my genuine reaction would be 'so what?'. I believe that for a fully equal society that all people regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or shoe size should have the same rights to live, love, work, marry etc etc. They are my opinions, for what they're worth.
Now, the question refers to the C of E. (Noted that it may as well also refer to Catholicism, Islam, one or two branches of Wicca etc etc.) And that's where it gets tricky. I'm firmly of the opinion that if you want to be part of the club, you abide by the rules. The sad thing is that in some instances gay or female people will be excluded in these systems. It's wrong, but that's the rules.
SO - my solution? Form a new church. You don't need to be happy clappy to be a non-CofE Christian; form a new All-Inclusive Church. The established religions will always exclude those who 'don't fit' with their narrow minded bigotry, so leave it behind and move on to concentrate on what the religion actually stands for.
logic- I guess you are no. 13 on Mani's list then....
Ethel -
1. It is not illegal. (Rightly you pointed out that it was but my question was in the 'here and now.'
2. Paedophilia is based upon coercion, rape and the destroying of young lives, whereas homosexuality is a relationship between consenting adults!
Flippin 'eck Ethel!
Ethel -
1. It is not illegal. (Rightly you pointed out that it was but my question was in the 'here and now.'
2. Paedophilia is based upon coercion, rape and the destroying of young lives, whereas homosexuality is a relationship between consenting adults!
Flippin 'eck Ethel!
Man's inhumanity to man is so terribly sad. Where's the compassion? Do the people who denounce homosexuals ever stop to think what it must be like fror a young boy to discover he's gay when everyone around him expects him to be heterosexual? People have committed suicide because they so desperately want to be 'normal', but like all of us, they can't change the way they are - and why should they try? To suit ill-informed, ignorant and holier-than-thou people like Keyplus, Logic and Ghetto Poet?
You know the old saying - don't criticise until you've walked a mile in the other man's shoes. Perhaps you should look at your own failings - because believe me, you've made them abundantly clear on this thread. Maybe you ought to go away and think about it. If you're very lucky, you might learn something. At the very least, how to be a caring human being.
You know the old saying - don't criticise until you've walked a mile in the other man's shoes. Perhaps you should look at your own failings - because believe me, you've made them abundantly clear on this thread. Maybe you ought to go away and think about it. If you're very lucky, you might learn something. At the very least, how to be a caring human being.
Ok. Looks like I have few questions to answer. First of all Waldo.
WaldoMcFroog
Tue 05/08/08
12:33 May I ask at what age you made the decision to be heterosexual, Keyplus?
Yes answer is very simple and straight. When I realized that I was a male then I realized at the same time that I would need a female (whenever) I will have to have a life partner. And same goes to the females but other way around. Because in any decent society where family life is alive and kicking you need male and female to make a family. By two males or two females you just can not have a family. It is very simple if you understand. However it is very complicated if you do not want to understand. In the end there are people who have sex with animals as well if it is all about sex. So very soon few will start marrying dogs, cats, donkeys and many more. After all it is just a life style.
Naomi- As usual half of your argument is very much valid, Yes God created us but God did tell us what is wrong and what is right. For more explanation see what I have already said above. After all it is just AB.
Wizard � I am not worried about as he is already sounding a bit drunk. Although it was just 14:39 then.
WaldoMcFroog
Tue 05/08/08
12:33 May I ask at what age you made the decision to be heterosexual, Keyplus?
Yes answer is very simple and straight. When I realized that I was a male then I realized at the same time that I would need a female (whenever) I will have to have a life partner. And same goes to the females but other way around. Because in any decent society where family life is alive and kicking you need male and female to make a family. By two males or two females you just can not have a family. It is very simple if you understand. However it is very complicated if you do not want to understand. In the end there are people who have sex with animals as well if it is all about sex. So very soon few will start marrying dogs, cats, donkeys and many more. After all it is just a life style.
Naomi- As usual half of your argument is very much valid, Yes God created us but God did tell us what is wrong and what is right. For more explanation see what I have already said above. After all it is just AB.
Wizard � I am not worried about as he is already sounding a bit drunk. Although it was just 14:39 then.
Y are Gods in the form of men? The Gods were surrounded by other men..........followers/disciples etc who 'fawned' on them.....making them feel powerful.
Who knows what they got up to while drawing up their religious books and rules. There's no record of them consulting with women for their agendas.
Who knows what they got up to while drawing up their religious books and rules. There's no record of them consulting with women for their agendas.
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My goodness you can't keep to the point keyplus, can you ?
"Yes answer is very simple and straight......"
That is because you never had to face any other choice than being 'straight'...........isn't it ?
Yes, procreation (at its simplest) requires a man and a woman..............but the survival of the human race is NOT predicated on the fact that every man/woman/couple needs to reproduce..........
You continuously throw in specious references to bestiality whenever 'this' topic comes up as if you are deliberately tying gay relationships in with animal/human sexual relationships............
You have no compassion and less understanding (or is it the other way round ?) of this complex issue and you continue to high-light this fact.
"Yes answer is very simple and straight......"
That is because you never had to face any other choice than being 'straight'...........isn't it ?
Yes, procreation (at its simplest) requires a man and a woman..............but the survival of the human race is NOT predicated on the fact that every man/woman/couple needs to reproduce..........
You continuously throw in specious references to bestiality whenever 'this' topic comes up as if you are deliberately tying gay relationships in with animal/human sexual relationships............
You have no compassion and less understanding (or is it the other way round ?) of this complex issue and you continue to high-light this fact.
Keyplus, which half of my argument isn't valid? If you say God made us, and it so happens that some of us are homosexual by nature, then even by your reckoning it means that God designed these people in this way - or failing that he made a mistake and it's a design fault. Your problem is that you can't understand that homosexuals aren't making a lifestyle choice. If they were, why would it cause some of them such misery? Your argument makes no sense.
Monkeyeyes hit on a relevant comparison. You must have suffered, or at the very least, be aware of prejudice, so tell me why, apparently devoid of all human compassion, you are so eager to dish it out to others? Perhaps rather than assume your superior and supercilious attitude, you should be saying 'There but for the grace of God go I".
(Incidentally, Keyplus, I'd abandon all attempts at sarcasm if I were you. You forget that those it is aimed at are not the only people reading this, and so, as clever as you may think you are, in reality, by constantly doing this, you are only succeeding in showing yourself in your true light. Apart from that, sarcasm does nothing to further your argument - and you're not good at it).
Monkeyeyes hit on a relevant comparison. You must have suffered, or at the very least, be aware of prejudice, so tell me why, apparently devoid of all human compassion, you are so eager to dish it out to others? Perhaps rather than assume your superior and supercilious attitude, you should be saying 'There but for the grace of God go I".
(Incidentally, Keyplus, I'd abandon all attempts at sarcasm if I were you. You forget that those it is aimed at are not the only people reading this, and so, as clever as you may think you are, in reality, by constantly doing this, you are only succeeding in showing yourself in your true light. Apart from that, sarcasm does nothing to further your argument - and you're not good at it).
naomi i cant believe you call me ignorant. this coming from the biggest xenophobe on answerbank who resorts to personal insults to people in nearly every question once her prejudice ideas on race and religion are debunked.
people like you and wizard love questions like this where you can all have a good excuse to attack keyplus just because he is from a different culture with different values.
people like you and wizard love questions like this where you can all have a good excuse to attack keyplus just because he is from a different culture with different values.
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