Another reason to boycot organised religion

[Le Chat]

I heard a radio chat show last week in which a cleric of the C of E described homosexuality as being 'an abomination.' This really annoys me for several reasons. 1) The world has many, many homosexuals, so on the scale of unusuality, it would be seen as a common condition. 2) Homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice, it just is what it is. I could no easier have a gay relationship myself (as a hetro) as a homosexual could have a hetrosexual relationship. It is equally as unimaginable. 3) What business is it of anyone else? 4) Why do people of the cloth always seem to have such closed, bigoted minds?
What do you all think?

[jackthehat]

Morning to you naomi.

He's fine and many thanks for asking. Safe and sound but a little changed - my boy seems to have gone and been replaced by a young man. The jury is still out as to whether I like these alterations or not :o)

And at least I sleep more soundly at night, now....

[jackthehat]

You are wrong about so much, Keyplus........just ask my son.

[MiniN]

not at all keyplus, you can live your life anyway you choose, as long as your not harming others.

what business of one persons sexuality have to do with you?

[naomi24]

Jack, I'm sure you will once you get used to it. I imagine he's seen enough to change any boy into a man. x

[MiniN]

naomi, what were we thinking trying to give our opinions to bigots. shame on us women - back to the kitchen, barefoot and shackled!

i know my place!

[ghetto poet]

naomi im not saying that you should not question something because its from a different culture what i find disgusting is your motives for doing it.

you and wizard are basically just racist bullys. wizard believes in killing muslims, theland says that all muslims are peadofiles and these are your two best friends on here. even the question where wizard was promoting genocide all you could do is attack keyplus. just admit it you have beef with him becuase he is not white!!

im not going to argue this anymore because you never accept that you are wrong and will just keep going and going,

[jackthehat]

You are a bigot, Ghetto poet.
But because you have justified it using your own rationale it doesn't count, does it ?

Quick to point out perceived bigotry elsewhere but you can't see the elephant in your own front room,can you ?

[Octavius]

So we have moved away from the religious aspect and focussed on the morality of the issue as perceived by all people everywhere.

Personally as I have said before, I think it has nothing to do with religion, although of course people will use any means necessary to justify their displeasure. So we are left with the moral argument. Those that are saying it is wrong are doing so on the basis of their own perceived moralistic grounds. They will say it is simply wrong, its not natural and in fact it is therefore immoral.

Similarly many of us will agree that there remains certain societal taboos that some of us will not accept - but equally are not 'chosen' - paedophilia has been given, how about bestiality and incest as other examples. Of course these are deviant behaviours and gives the majority the same reaction as to those above who consider homosexuality as deviant in the form of moral absolutism. Somebody a hundred or so years ago would have been encouraged to marry a first cousin, we also hear of people who are content to be married to inanimate objects and do so. I have similar thoughts about people engaging in S&M which invariably seems to have achieved a fair level of social acceptability. It�s a personal view.

I do not believe that homosexuality is a choice, generally I think people are born that way. I have no evidence or proof and greater minds than mine have been researching this potential fact for years. I believe they are following their natural instinct, which is generally at odds with heterosexual belief. I cannot profess to know, but I imagine the thought of heterosexuality is at odds with homosexual ethos. Its just widely accepted.

Cont'd....

[Octavius]

So whilst we may all berate those who are lagging behind in the levels of tolerance and acceptability that our society has progressed (only in the last 30-50 years mind) and rightly so. But equally we must accept that there are people who don�t agree, and providing they don�t contravene laws and humanitarian standards towards the people they chose to disagree with or despise, then they are quite entitled to their view even if you do find it medieval and abhorrent.

[MiniN]

sadly octavius, it does not stop at just someones view/belief.

people are murdered, beaten, raped, abused and degraded because they are homosexual. I'm not saying anyone on here would go to the extremes but to tell someone they are wrong and sinful because of their sexuality is not very nice.

wouldn't it be nice if we all lived by the saying, 'if you haven't got anything nice to say, say nothing at all'

[jackthehat]

I agree, Octavius.
I have to admit defeat when it comes to the religious argument. All the major religions are unequivocal in their condemnation of my life/style.
I am left then with moral objections.
Whilst I understand that there are people who believe that they have sound bases for their opposition I find it quite startling to be confronted with the blunt/brutal language used to communicate these opinions.

[Octavius]

Mini N, as I said, people will use any means to justify their beliefs and actions, whether we agree with them or not, it is sadly a fact of history and of life. our laws are here to protect us..... after the event.

People are murdered, beaten, raped, abused and degraded because of their colour, their religion, their lifestyle or even because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Someone was kicked to death recently because they were a goth. One day I may get duffed up for being white middle class/Catholic/Irish/a Mockney / having a mixed race wife etc etc.

How many people would abide the adage, 'if you haven't got anything nice to say, say nothing at all'? Even I can�t contain myself sometimes!

Mini N & jack, Of course any abuse or personal verbal attacks are not nice � and Dear God(!) � we see a lot of that on here. I would dare say though, they are only words, and words can hurt but I trust nobody here would take to sticks and stones � but then we have laws against that, and if they do, then lets hope justice is served.

[jackthehat]

Unfortunately, Octavius, I have been on the receiving end of slightly more 'forthright' and physical objections to my sexuality. And these would appear to have been based solely on my sexuality.

[MiniN]

i understand that people are attacked for all sorts of different reasons and no reason at all. hate/violent crimes are inexcusable full stop.

i just don't think that people should make racist or bigotry comments. if they have the misfortune to have these beliefs, surely they can keep them to themselves? what sort of person sets out to upset and hurt other people?

i am not being hurtful by saying there is nothing wrong with being gay, but when someone says being gay is wrong - i don't see the point in it.

here's another good one:

live and let live

[naomi24]

Ghetto Poet, you call me racist and yet the only way you can back up your accusation is to cite things that other people have said. I am not responsible for what others say, so what evidence is that of my perceived racism? None at all. There's no substance in your argument, you have nothing whatsoever to corroborate it, and so I'm not surprised you don't want to argue any more. If someone denies the holocaust, as Keyplus did, then, yes, I will attack them, but make no mistake - my arguments here are never, ever, founded on the basis of colour or creed, and I take the greatest exception to your accusation. You know absolutely nothing about me, or my life, and you really are an incredibly ignorant man.

[Octavius]

MiniN So what about the people who tell me that being catholic or even religious and believing in God is wrong? Or call me stupid, irrational and delusional? Is that acceptable?

I have to accept that, that is their view and providing they do me no harm they can preach about my perceived irrational stupidity as much as they like. Equally, I am entitled to have a say.

If someone attacked me because I am Catholic, most people on here would probably be outraged, but there will always be those who consider I deserve it. Even some on here.

[ghetto poet]

get lost jackthehat you sick pervert. im not suprised your son joined the army. if my mom constantly had her tongue in another females vaginas i would try to leave home too.

[keyplus90]

Spot the difference,

MiniN
Wed 06/08/08
12:57
if they have the misfortune to have these beliefs, surely they can keep them to themselves?




MiniN
Wed 06/08/08
12:57 i am not being hurtful by saying there is nothing wrong with being gay, but when someone says being gay is wrong - i don't see the point in it.

here's another good one:

live and let live

[WaldoMcFroog]

What an pathetic waste of DNA you are, Mr Ghetto Poet.

[Quinlad]

"I will not act upon any of my urge which is not good for society as a whole."

Talk me through your diet. Ever fancy a bit of chocolate? What about fried food? The odd indulgence now and then?

By eating food that's high in cholesterol and therefore bad for your health, you're harming society. You're placing a greater strain on the healthcare system - which adversely affects us all. (By clogging your arteries, you're also reducing your fertility, but that's another argument.) You're also setting a bad example to young people and, by purchasing this food, you're convincing manufacturers that's there's a market for this. So the market becomes flooded with even more of it.

I presume you never give in to the urge for any unhealthy food, given how much you're concerned with society.

Or were you just talking utter sh*t?