can you believe this ?

[brionon]

RABAT - A Moroccan theologian repeated his claims Sunday that Muslim girls could marry as early as nine years old, arguing it was sanctioned by the Prophet Mohammed.

"The marriage of nine-year-old girls is not forbidden because according to the Hadith (the Prophet Mohammed's sayings), Mohammed married Aisha when she was only seven-years-old and he consummated his union when she was nine," wrote Sheikh Mohamed Ben Abderrahman Al-Maghraoui on his website (Maghrawi.net).

"Those who criticise me, like the press or Moroccan television as well as the lawyer who filed the complaint (against me), are part of a secular attack against the Islamic nation and its theologians," he added.

[tigerlily11]

Ok Keyplus I don't know any myself but I don't for one moment think that there are none at all.
Child abuse is something which happens in all areas of society. Do you know of any?
Maybe not but that doesn't mean there are no Muslim peodophiles.
My husband on the other hand knows of at least one. But I'm not discussing that case here as it will add nothing to the main point of our debate. ANd besides which it isn't right.
The thing is Key your not grasping what we are trying to tell you. I doesn't matter a jot about how many Muslims there are in the world or who has become one, and no end of links will change the fact that once again you have choosen to view this whole thread not for what it is, Questioning this mans beliefs, But a piece of anti muslim propaganda once again. Anything questioning the points of any religion is not always propaganda but a way of finding out what is right and what is wrong and if you have a religion which preaches anything and tells people they must do things a certain way then there wil always be questions.
The question is that is this man right to condon something which for the best part is just not on.
The answer is no.
the reason why we rant about it is because you have choosen to use it as a platform to preach about how great Islam is hwen in fact it is as flawed as any other religion in that the very preaching we listen to is written by man.
No matter what you say Mohammed was just a man and no one anywhere can prove absolutly that what he said and did was in any way governed by or told to him by God. Just as we cannot prove that the bible was either. It is our interpretation of God. And often that interpretation can be very wrong.
It still doesn't mean that you should not find comfort and help it what is written. Just try for once making your own mind up and listen to that still small voice in your own mind for once.

[keyplus90]

naomi24
Sat 20/09/08
08:00 My question was sensible too,

Even your this question is not sensible. And I am sure I am not on slippery ground. Can you give me where is it in the Quran what you are referring to? Had you read my links you wouldn�t have made this stupid statement. This incident is nowhere in the Quran as Quran is not life story of Muhammad (pbuh). The quotation is from Hadith. And hadiths has no final say until it is from an greed upon reliable source. But I am sure you would still be adamant about your statement about quran.

[keyplus90]

Any way that shows your knowledge about the subject.

[naomi24]

Oh dear, Keyplus, a slip of the keyboard, perhaps, but I think you know a little better than to accuse me of ignorance on the subject, so don't get too excited.

So, ok, let's try again. Are you saying that this literature, by which you usually set such store, contains inaccuracies, and if so, what are you to believe?

And in all your needless euphoria, you still haven't answered my question - which was, in fact, a very logical and sensible one.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, well you're around today, but you clearly can't answer the questions here. Not to worry. Your silence speaks volumes.

[naomi24]

Oh, I think Keyplus likes women well enough, Wiz (apart from me, of course), and he especially likes page 3 girls, as we know - even though he bleats on about how unacceptable western morals are. Mmmm � double standards, would you say? Quite possibly. Anyway, that aside, the point is he clearly likes women to know their place. As long as they don't presume to disagree with men, they're fine - and I speak from experience! Heaven(?) forbid they should be educated and have minds and opinions of their own!

As for defending paedophilia, I really don't think he sees this issue as paedophilia. He would probably be the first to denounce it in western society, but we're talking about Islam here - and as we all know, Islam is never wrong.

Incidentally, I was too tired the other night to go in search of mention of this issue in the Koran - which is why I said �a slip of the keyboard �perhaps� - but the Koran does mention it - and it doesn't denounce it. In fact, it appears to take it for granted that little girls - even before menstruation commences - will be married. This is from the Koran on the subject of divorce (which obviously means marriage has taken place).

'If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months (presumably to discern whether tthey pregnant or not). The same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated�. (Qur�an 65:4)

The word of Allah - set in stone - and never, ever wrong! And that really is indefensible!

[squiggle-67]

Historically,in all religions,Boys and girls have married young. We now know this is not right and no longer accept it. Islam and most Muslims will feel the same. Their Prophet did it over 1400 years ago, but it would be frowned upon today. These "mad Mullahs" are doing alot of harm to their own people. Interestingly, I have neighbours from Former Yugoslavia who have a 17 year old daughter who is pregnant with her second child, she got married at 13 years of age and they are Catholic!

[naomi24]

Squiggle, but it would be frowned upon today. Not in some societies, unfortunately.

Girls marrying at 13 has already been mentioned, and we know that is the norm in some countries. However, we're discussing much younger girls here. I totally agree with you when you say the mad Mullahs are doing a lot of harm to their own people. There's no doubt about that.

[keyplus90]

For Naomi all I can say this,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_G rapes

Even the fox never admitted that she could not accomplish the task. Same way now she has come up with a verse from Quran where there is nothing mention about the age. She did has decency to mention it has something to do with divorce. In fact that has nothing to do with paedophilia but as usual of course few people need something to satisfy them. Of course that is for divorce as Islam does not allow divorce or marriage when woman is pregnant as father has to take the responsibility of the child. Three month period is because then you know who the father is.

Any way this is what Islam says about divorce. Islam still gives respect even when it comes to divorce.

http://www.submission.org/women/divorce.html

Ohh Sorry I know you do not like links, as links sometimes give you the information that you do not like.

Again, Had you read my previous links you wouldn�t have made fool of yourself. But in fact you still are doing.

There is a common saying Tell and insist on lie so much that people should start believing in it as truth<b/> You surly are trying your best. Then you say your questions are sensible.

[keyplus90]

naomi24
Sat 20/09/08
08:00 My question was sensible too, but I didn't get an answer. Why treat ten year old boys as children, but consider nine year old girls to be old enough for marriage?

So scholars have questioned the age of Mohammed's wife? Odd that this is offered in defence of your argument since I have always understood from you that not one single word in the Koran is untrue. It's the infallible word of Allah, isn't it? Or does that only apply until something unsavoury and unacceptable rears its ugly head? You're on sticky ground here Keyplus. If you are saying that this is questionable, then you're admitting that the Koran isn't completely accurate, and we therefore have to ask what other inaccuracies it might contain.

naomi24
Mon 22/09/08
22:33
Incidentally, I was too tired the other night to go in search of mention of this issue in the Koran - which is why I said �a slip of the keyboard �perhaps�


So you were tired at 8:00 in the morning. You just can not accept that you do not have enough knowledge and instead making a fool of your self again and again. That was the reason I left this thread alone because I wanted to give you bit of sanctuary..

My mother always said, Do accept if you make a mistake and do not try covering it with a lie, or else you will have to tell another lie to cover that, and on and on�

[naomi24]

Goodness me. That certainly hit the spot, didn�t it! If you�d care to stop ranting for a moment and check my post, you will see that it is logged at 8 minutes past midnight - not at 8 o�clock in the morning - and yes, I was too tired at that time at night to search the Koran for what I knew it contained in order to remedy my �slip of the keyboard perhaps�- the keyword there being perhaps. Although you find the facts unpalatable, which is clearly why you are getting your knickers in a knot, the Koran, nevertheless makes it absolutely clear that some wives are very young girls who have not yet menstruated. It�s there in black and white, and nobody can deny that - except you, it seems.

Keyplus, you can rant all you like, you can cast false aspersions on my honesty to your heart�s content, and you can illustrate your dubious wisdom with as many fairy tales and worthless links as you wish - the regular contributors here are accustomed to all of that by now - but whilst you�re doing it please be aware that I am not the one making a fool of myself.

Incidentally, your mother was right. What a pity you didn�t listen to her.

[keyplus90]

I always thought 8 minutes past midnight looked like this�.

Naomi24
Sun 21/09/08
00:08 Oh dear, Keyplus, a slip of the keyboard, perhaps, but I


Never knew that it could look like this as well��.


Naomi24
Sat 20/09/08
08:00 My question was sensible too, but I didn't get an


Then what would you say this is, 8 minutes and 24 seconds past midnight


Naomi24
Mon 15/09/08
08:24 Question Author
Hi Lonnie, It seems contradictory to say that some

You just can�t accept can you? And yes you are doing exactly what my mother asked not to do. You are trying to tell more lies to cover your ignorance + 1st lie

In the end I would say that sometime you should try to sleep as well, otherwise you are breaking up.


I do not like asking these sort of personal questions but you are a woman (as far as I know, but ??????). Did you ever have irregularities with your monthly periods when you were not even pregnant? How long did that go on for? That is where the answer of that verse is hidden. But I know you will never understand. You know why? Because you are not even trying to.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, what on earth are you banging on about? You�ve copied and pasted my original post which was logged at 8am, and you�ve copied and pasted my subsequent post where I said I'd made a slip of the keyboard - and that was logged at 8 minutes past midnight - far too late to start scanning the Koran. Got it? And what a few words of my post to Lonnie have to do with it, I really have no idea.

Unlike you, Keyplus, I don�t lie, I don�t level false accusations at people in a childishly pathetic attempt to discredit them - and I am happy to accept an answer if it makes sense, which yours rarely do - hence the reason I question. At the time the Koran was written, men married young girls - you know that - Mohammed himself did it - so it was clearly quite normal in those days (unless you're saying he was abnormal?). That being the case, this verse talks of wives who have NOT YET menstruated - and that doesn�t mean irregular periods. You don�t like that, so surprise, surprise, you tell me there�s a mysterious hidden meaning in the words. Do give it up, and stop making an idiot of yourself, Keyplus, for heaven�s sake, before you dig yourself into an even deeper hole. Plainly and simply, like it or not, it�s there for all to see.

[keyplus90]

Any reliabale reference even from history please that it was common marrying young girls at that time in Arab?

[keyplus90]

Any way Arabs did use to burry girls alive at that time the practice denounced and discontinued by Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers. You may call him abnormal in that sense again.

And don�t you worry about me digging a hole for myself. I am here to dig others out of holes. So keep coming. Any way I have already made a request to Alazhar Islamic University in Egypt that they should give you a chance to re-translate Quran as your knowledge about Arabic is phenomenal.

[naomi24]

Oh dear. Intelligent debate never was your forte, so tell you what - I'll go and talk to someone sensible, and you stay here if you want to, and talk to yourself. I expect you know what you're talking about - even if no one else does.

[keyplus90]

In the end old tactics as I said. Say lie so loud that it should sound like truth. OK 3rd time I would let you get away with it. I know that you cannot even differentiate between 08:00 and 00:08. So what more...................

Your other friend there is not worth wasting my time on. Because he is worth less than an insect in my eyes.