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Jews in Britain
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I know this a bit on the poitical side, but i'd like to know, if you don't mind, what is your conception of Jews in this country?.
I ask this, because some of the replies and posts in the news section, were most definately anti Jewish, as well as being anti Israeli,
With whats happening, and peoples perspectives, I can understand the anti Israeli part, but I find it hard to understand the spite that came out, (only from a few), against Jews.
I ask this, because some of the replies and posts in the news section, were most definately anti Jewish, as well as being anti Israeli,
With whats happening, and peoples perspectives, I can understand the anti Israeli part, but I find it hard to understand the spite that came out, (only from a few), against Jews.
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Really?
I do tend to lose interest when the thread get over about 50 replies all on the same ground but I don't recall seeing anything anti-jewish.
My wife is actually the daugter of a Jewish refugee from Austria and I grew up in a school that had quite a large jewish contingent.
I've not come across a great deal of anti-jewish feeling in this country - maybe I don't mix in the "right" circles.
I do wonder though if increasingly aggressive actions by Israel may have unfortunate spin offs in rising anti-semite feelings.
Any muslim will tell you that it's easy for an entire people to get tarred with an extremist brush.
I do tend to lose interest when the thread get over about 50 replies all on the same ground but I don't recall seeing anything anti-jewish.
My wife is actually the daugter of a Jewish refugee from Austria and I grew up in a school that had quite a large jewish contingent.
I've not come across a great deal of anti-jewish feeling in this country - maybe I don't mix in the "right" circles.
I do wonder though if increasingly aggressive actions by Israel may have unfortunate spin offs in rising anti-semite feelings.
Any muslim will tell you that it's easy for an entire people to get tarred with an extremist brush.
If Italy went to war with India, it'd be possible to have an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the conflict, without being anti-Christian or anti-Hindu. But apparently, not in this case.
I wonder how you'd react, Lonnie, if a Hindu poster saw bias in the mainstream media and redressed it by posting links to articles from Hindu writers with an axe to grind - and presenting them as sober, reasoned analysis.
Would it be anti-Hindu to challenge that? Or is that just normal debate?
I wonder how you'd react, Lonnie, if a Hindu poster saw bias in the mainstream media and redressed it by posting links to articles from Hindu writers with an axe to grind - and presenting them as sober, reasoned analysis.
Would it be anti-Hindu to challenge that? Or is that just normal debate?
but I find it hard to understand the spite that came out, (only from a few), against Jews.
Am i in that few lonnie, because i spoke out against the war crimes. the killing of children in un safe building, the killing of a child holding up a white flag ???????
the fact that israel was started by terrorists
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Am i in that few lonnie, because i spoke out against the war crimes. the killing of children in un safe building, the killing of a child holding up a white flag ???????
the fact that israel was started by terrorists
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-- answer removed --
Lonnie, I�m sure Octavius posted a perfectly reasonable answer here, but it�s gone. Or am I mistaken? I tried to post my reply several times last night, but to no avail, so. I�ll try again. Here goes!
You were talking to people who were just plain prejudiced. Both politics and religion do funny things to people's minds - and mixed they can produce a plethora of irrationality. I haven't met many ultra-orthodox Jews, for obvious reasons, but I've known several orthodox Jews, some of whom have been my good friends for many years. In fact one of my bridesmaids at my first wedding was an orthodox Jew - and she loved being a part of a Christian wedding - as did the rest of her family. In my experience, if a Jew accepts you as a friend, then you are as one of the family and you are a friend for life. I love them. As friends, they are the kindest and the most caring people you could wish to meet. I have two complaints against them though. At weddings or Bar Mitzvahs, they toast Israel - a country that many have them have never been anywhere near, and although I understand why they do it, it sort of rubs with my English identity! Having said that, they do toast the Queen too, so that helps a bit! The other complaint is that after sitting at their table and enjoying a wonderful steak (great hosts the Jews!), they prefer me not to have cream with my coffee - but since I respect them and their homes, I wouldn't dream of making an issue of it, so that's just between us. ;o)
Cont�
You were talking to people who were just plain prejudiced. Both politics and religion do funny things to people's minds - and mixed they can produce a plethora of irrationality. I haven't met many ultra-orthodox Jews, for obvious reasons, but I've known several orthodox Jews, some of whom have been my good friends for many years. In fact one of my bridesmaids at my first wedding was an orthodox Jew - and she loved being a part of a Christian wedding - as did the rest of her family. In my experience, if a Jew accepts you as a friend, then you are as one of the family and you are a friend for life. I love them. As friends, they are the kindest and the most caring people you could wish to meet. I have two complaints against them though. At weddings or Bar Mitzvahs, they toast Israel - a country that many have them have never been anywhere near, and although I understand why they do it, it sort of rubs with my English identity! Having said that, they do toast the Queen too, so that helps a bit! The other complaint is that after sitting at their table and enjoying a wonderful steak (great hosts the Jews!), they prefer me not to have cream with my coffee - but since I respect them and their homes, I wouldn't dream of making an issue of it, so that's just between us. ;o)
Cont�
Lonnie, I�m sure Octavius posted a perfectly reasonable answer here, but it�s gone. Or am I mistaken? I tried to post my reply several times last night, but to no avail, so I�ll try again. Here goes!
In my view, whilst most of the people you were talking to were influenced by politics, it seemed quite clear that at least one person was just plain prejudiced. Both politics and religion do funny things to people's minds - and mixed they can produce a plethora of irrationality. Now to the question. I haven't met many ultra-orthodox Jews, for obvious reasons, but I've known several orthodox Jews, some of whom have been my good friends for many years. In fact one of my bridesmaids at my first wedding was an orthodox Jew - and she loved being a part of a Christian wedding - as did the rest of her family. In my experience, if a Jew accepts you as a friend, then you are as one of the family and you are a friend for life. I love them. As friends, they are the kindest and the most caring people you could wish to meet.
I know the question relates to Jews in England, but I would like to add that Jews in Israel I find to be generally aloof, unfriendly, and unhelpful.
Weeal, I'm pleased you said that. You need to see the holocaust museums in New York, and more especially in Israel, to really realise what the holocaust was all about - and then, to be perfectly honest, we're the lucky ones, because none of us can really ever understand what those people suffered. Man's capacity for cruelty to his fellow man is truly, truly unbelievable. Absolutely heart breaking.
Sorry, I went off track there a bit.
In my view, whilst most of the people you were talking to were influenced by politics, it seemed quite clear that at least one person was just plain prejudiced. Both politics and religion do funny things to people's minds - and mixed they can produce a plethora of irrationality. Now to the question. I haven't met many ultra-orthodox Jews, for obvious reasons, but I've known several orthodox Jews, some of whom have been my good friends for many years. In fact one of my bridesmaids at my first wedding was an orthodox Jew - and she loved being a part of a Christian wedding - as did the rest of her family. In my experience, if a Jew accepts you as a friend, then you are as one of the family and you are a friend for life. I love them. As friends, they are the kindest and the most caring people you could wish to meet.
I know the question relates to Jews in England, but I would like to add that Jews in Israel I find to be generally aloof, unfriendly, and unhelpful.
Weeal, I'm pleased you said that. You need to see the holocaust museums in New York, and more especially in Israel, to really realise what the holocaust was all about - and then, to be perfectly honest, we're the lucky ones, because none of us can really ever understand what those people suffered. Man's capacity for cruelty to his fellow man is truly, truly unbelievable. Absolutely heart breaking.
Sorry, I went off track there a bit.
Naomi - you are sounding extremely drunk, and sometime you should sleep as well, it will do good to your health and you would not post same post about half a dozen times.
Lonnie � if you are a Jew then being a Muslim I do not have any problem with that whatsoever. Nor have I any problem with my boss (who would not be a boos after tomorrow) as he is a Jew as well. Then I have worked around Hendon, Golders green area and we all know how many Jews are there. Problem only comes when majority of the Jews (not all of course) will back up any action by Israel. And as Naomi said that as well that Jews just can not think about themselves without Israel. Being a Muslim Saudi Arabia is one of the most sacred country for me but that does not mean I would back any action by Saudi Arabian government.
So in simple words, I do not hate Jews but I do not like what Israel has, is and will be doing in future without a doubt. And I am sure a good majority of the Muslims think exactly like this.
Lonnie � if you are a Jew then being a Muslim I do not have any problem with that whatsoever. Nor have I any problem with my boss (who would not be a boos after tomorrow) as he is a Jew as well. Then I have worked around Hendon, Golders green area and we all know how many Jews are there. Problem only comes when majority of the Jews (not all of course) will back up any action by Israel. And as Naomi said that as well that Jews just can not think about themselves without Israel. Being a Muslim Saudi Arabia is one of the most sacred country for me but that does not mean I would back any action by Saudi Arabian government.
So in simple words, I do not hate Jews but I do not like what Israel has, is and will be doing in future without a doubt. And I am sure a good majority of the Muslims think exactly like this.
I think AB had a glitch last night causing a slight groundhog day effect.
I've known many Jews over the years never had any problems with them, in all honesty I've never had any bother with anyone who is of a theist nature.
but in the same vein one can be anti-Israel but not anti jewish. Many Israelis object to government policies in the area.
I remember reading an article on manners and it talked about Israel saying that please and thankyou are'nt the norm there (I don't know personally just what it said) the Turks (well Kurds) don't use please in their native tongue either apparently.
I've known many Jews over the years never had any problems with them, in all honesty I've never had any bother with anyone who is of a theist nature.
but in the same vein one can be anti-Israel but not anti jewish. Many Israelis object to government policies in the area.
I remember reading an article on manners and it talked about Israel saying that please and thankyou are'nt the norm there (I don't know personally just what it said) the Turks (well Kurds) don't use please in their native tongue either apparently.
Don't think British people are anti-semitic, in general. We've obviously moved on, to exercise our obvious and God- given, 'patriotic' true British right to be racist and intolerant about other people instead !
Israel is a different case. It's fairly easy to take sides when considering Israel, either pro or anti its government's behaviour.
One of the strangest, but funniest, things I heard in Israel itself, was a New York Jew complaining bitterly about what he perceived as local attitudes to business and customer service. He said " The trouble with these people is that they're not really Jewish !" (and he didn't mean they were Moslems in Israel ) Worthy of Jackie Mason!
Israel is a different case. It's fairly easy to take sides when considering Israel, either pro or anti its government's behaviour.
One of the strangest, but funniest, things I heard in Israel itself, was a New York Jew complaining bitterly about what he perceived as local attitudes to business and customer service. He said " The trouble with these people is that they're not really Jewish !" (and he didn't mean they were Moslems in Israel ) Worthy of Jackie Mason!
Re: Praising Israel at Bar Mitzvahs etc... Are you sure they're not praising Israel as in the name given to the desecendents of Issac i.e. rather than it being praise of the Jewish people rather than the modern country of the same name..?
It would seem more logical for that to be the case and in that regard no more strange than the reinforcement of bonds that you find in the rituals of most other religions.
It would seem more logical for that to be the case and in that regard no more strange than the reinforcement of bonds that you find in the rituals of most other religions.
I visited Belsen 3 years ago, my young brother is stationed in Germany and lives closeby.
It was the most calm place I have ever visited, all the horror obliterated in the most scenic of gardens, but with the reminders of tombs here and there showing dates and numbers of victims.
It has an information centre at the end with photographs and videos taken of the horror back then as a total contrast to the grounds themselves and a huge wall with all the names on.
God Im shivering as I type this.
Makes you sick to think of it all.
It was the most calm place I have ever visited, all the horror obliterated in the most scenic of gardens, but with the reminders of tombs here and there showing dates and numbers of victims.
It has an information centre at the end with photographs and videos taken of the horror back then as a total contrast to the grounds themselves and a huge wall with all the names on.
God Im shivering as I type this.
Makes you sick to think of it all.
