Go Muslims!

[JockSporran]

Islam encourages righteousness and opposes evil. It supports traditional family values and stands against promiscuity and immorality. We need something to fill the spiritual and moral void here, so I respect Islam. Do I have a point?

[SuDFB]

Its not the religion its self that says these things, many of the things mentioned here about islam is actualy tradition for a perticular or a few countrys. In the Qur'an it does not mention these things...

And Christianity isnt perfect either, there is crap and good in every religion in my view.

But I do agree with a few comments made that in this country there is no respect discipline and and its disguting to see kids smoking and drinking in the middle of the street and girls getting pregnant at 14 but this has nothing to do with religion its the way they were brought up its the countrys law that defends the offender and not the victim its giving people benefits like theres no tomorrow.

A good smack never is what they need oh wait thats against the law to...

[JockSporran]

Gromit and naomi - so you want to 'ban the lot', eh? And this makes you less intolerant than Muslims how exactly?

Dabees - you ask for evidence of atrocity carried out in the name of atheism. What about the thousands of monks, nuns and priests sent to Soviet concentration camps? Or the similar persecution of believers by Pol Pot and other atheist 'Communist' regimes?

Points to ponder:

1) Islam is not as intolerant as some of you might think. The Koran claims to confirm, not deny, the teachings of Judaism and Christianity.

2) Not all practicing Muslims are intolerant bigots.

3) Not all Muslim women wear burkhas, or even headscarves for that matter.

4) Moral values like respect, discipline and 'good' behaviour are sadly in decline. Most Muslim families I come across believe in these things. We could learn a thing or two from them.

[naomi24]

Jock, I assure you that Muslims couldn't teach me anything about moral or family values. Now will you answer my question - or is it too difficult?

[naomi24]

The Koran claims to confirm, not deny, the teachings of Judaism and Christianity.

We know that, but why are you telling us? Is it meant to influence our judgement in some way?

[tamborine]

If you want a stoneage existance go to the wild plains of Africa and live.

In UK we fought for the civilisation we enjoy today.

Islamics seem to be intent on destroying buildings and infastructure to instill their power, ie Afganistan/Iraq/Palestine - they were all beautiful cities before the muslim uprisings.

[JockSporran]

naomi - How do I explain how you have succeeded as a parent without religion? Is that the question you want me to answer? OK: Because God (or Allah as Muslims call Him) is looking after you.

tambourine - which 'civilisation' would that be, then? The one which has drive-by shootings, pimps, gangsters, robberies for drug money, alcohol-related deaths, sexually transmitted diseases, teenage pregnancies and children subjected to sex, violence and filthy language on TV?

Unbelievers claim they have no god, but that isn't true. They do have a god. It's called the Golden Calf.

[tamborine]

JockSporran....all that - we have laws & prisons to deal with it! Better than starvation!

[naomi24]

Jock, Unbelievers claim they have no god, but that isn't true. They do have a god. It's called the Golden Calf.

Do you really think non-believers live the lifestyle you describe? Religion has certainly taught you something, Jock, not least how to insult people. And you have the gall to accuse me of intolerance! What a joke!

Before you spout your self-righteous twaddle to us again, I suggest you do as most of the atheists here have done, and educate yourself thoroughly by investigating in some considerable depth the source of your archaic beliefs - if you have the courage. And that goes for you too, Keyplus.

And no, it wasn�t your God that looked after me, Jock. I looked after me- and I looked after mine. Unlike you and the rest of the sanctimonious herd who have abandoned their intellect for fear of a mythological, psychopathic monster, atheists do not depend upon others to lead them through life by the nose with the rest of the asses.

[birdie1971]

Hi Jock.


I loved your �points to ponder�. Can I have a go at �pondering� them?

Ok, here goes (and for brevity I'll paraphrase your questions).

1 � Islam is not intolerant.
I beg to differ. All the big three major religions are. Not intolerant? Are you serious?

Homosexual? � Death to you.
Adulterer? � Death to you.
Been raped? � Death to you (if you claim it and can't prove it)
Female and gone out of the house on your own? - Lashes (and possibly death)
etc.

Koran 5:10 "Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire."


2 - Not all practising Muslims are intolerant bigots.
Correct. But a lot are.

Koran 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."


3 - Not all Muslim women wear burkhas.
Correct. Those women living in western societies who can exercise their human rights can chose not to wear them. Try dressing immodestly in Saudi, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. and see how tolerant Muslim men are.

Koran 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."


4 � Morals � Ahh. The old argument � morality.

Koran 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly."





The wonderful religion that is Islam.

[beso]

Religion and worship are intrinsically evil practices. They promote the abrogation of responsibility for thought and action and are used to manipulate millions of followers into amoral action.

Anything that demands we lock or our moral philosophy to something written by bigotted men many centuries in the past is an utterly ridiculous practice.

Religion is a spiritual and moral void. They have nothing to offer us. Reseach has shown that atheists actually have a more highly developed sense of morality.

[JockSporran]

naomi - there, there. Calm down.

luna-sea - religion divides us, faith unites us.

beso - 'Research has shown that atheists actually hace a more highly developed sense of morality'. Ha ha ha, I'm laughing my @ss off . You've made my day, thanks beso.

[naomi24]

Jock, I'm always calm - and that patronising response can only have come from someone who has no real answer.

I understand what you're saying about good family values, and I agree, of course they are important, but they are by no means impossible to achieve without religion. In fact, if you try it you'll find it's quite the reverse. To promote Islamic family life as a shining example of what we should all aspire to is absolutely ludicrous - and that's an understatement!

Religion doesn't promote education, and its influence doesn't result in maturity, as will be born out by the statement Keyplus made regarding his parents. Religion thrives not only on fear, but on control - and control encourages self-doubt - the result of which is the psychological need for lifeline to cling to. You need this God to get you through life, and so you teach your children that they need him too - and so the cycle of religious indoctrination and self-doubt continues throughout the generations - and this is what you, and the religious throughout this world, are in fact encouraging. That is no recommendation.

[keyplus90]

Ah friend little birdie who like twisting verses of Quran but unfortunately for him, he can not avoid me. Let�s see what he said.

I will not go into the details of all the people according to birdie Islam says Death to but what homosexuals and adulterers give to the society, we all know. However if you want to keep your eyes shut then good for you. Although I would love to see where in Quran it is said what birdie claims for someone who has been raped.

Birdie posted - Koran 5:10 "Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire."

Those who drive over 100 miles per hr would be disqualified from driving. Now this is British law. However you have a choice. Do that and face the penalty. Or abide by the law and be safe. However if you do not believe in God and hell then why are you worried about it any way? That does not make sense to me.

Birdie posted - Koran 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends." It is half of the verse as perhaps little birdie missed the other half. Here is full verse.

Quran 5:51. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for protection) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Arabic word used there is �Olia� plural of �wali� means Friend or Guardian. Here has been used in relation to describe link between two societies. For example you can easily see who do the American favour when it comes to the conflict between Palestine and Israel, even white phosphorus is ignored.

cont:

[keyplus90]

Cont:

Birdie posted Koran 4:15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.

However if you do not mind your woman�s lewdness and would rather encourage her then that is your choice birdie so keep going but you can�t expect all the others to do the same. If few people like wife swapping that does not mean all the others do too.

I hope birdie could have read a couple of more verses in the same chapter. This was only couple of rows down,

Birdie posted Koran 5:33 The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.

Here is same verse.

Quran 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.

That is war time verse. I again hope Birdie had posted or at least seen one soon after that. After all my little birdie only picks what he likes.

34. Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

[birdie1971]

Hello Keyplus you horrible little man. What's happened to your objections about long posts? It was not so long ago that that you criticised me for my long replies.

Have you conveniently forgotten about that, you horrible, moronic imbecile?

[JockSporran]

naomi - religion doesn't encourage education, eh? This might stun you, but throughout the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, schools were built and run by religious orders. It was the pagan heathens who liked to destroy them.

Generations of biblical ideas like consideration for others have taught you well, and you have passed them on to your children, but without faith these ideas will disappear in a generation or two because we live in a society where atheist thought preaches 'I want to be free, I want to be me'. Generations will grow up thinking 'why should I care?'
Dear naomi, there is hope for you. You are looking for answers. Turn away from the modern cynicism that has poisoned you against faith. Return to God, in whatever form you see Him as, and you will find a whole new meaning to life.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, ........ but what homosexuals and adulterers give to the society, we all know.

Are you quite sure you know? I certainly know one adulterer who gave something to society - he gave it the Koran. Still, I suppose Mohammed can be forgiven since the book clearly states that a man may have sex with his slaves - so that's alright then. (Readers will please note here that this concession applies only to men. Women who stray will indeed, as Birdie says, be confined to their houses until death claims them).

And let's not forget that at the age of 49, Mohammed married one wife when she was only six years old, although he did have the decency to wait until she was nine before consummating the marriage. Praise be! Yes, let us make our society a better place by following the impeccable example of Islam!

As for homosexuals, how about Tchaikovsky, Oscar Wilde, Leonardo da Vinci, Aristotle, Lawrence of Arabia, and Michelangelo? And there are one or two others who have made the pages of history too - not least, Alexander the Great.

Keyplus, you're so fond of preaching to others, so why don't you tell us what you have given to society? Perhaps we will then, for once, gain some benefit from your very dubious pearls of wisdom.

Birdie, thank you so much for that advice. I'll bear it in mind. :o)

Blimey, Luna, how on earth do you do that without the benefit of religion to teach you? Amazing!