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faith in god ?
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watching the rescue of the chillean miners, some have thanked god and their faith for assisting them in coping underground for such a long time and being rescued. would you thank god ?
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It is very evident that, for most if not all of the miners, their faith in God helped them to survive. One of the first things they did was to organise their daily living, which included twice daily prayers. Their rescuers, from el Presidente downwards were forthright in their appreciation of the role faith in God played in sustaining their fantastic hard work national cohesion and technical brilliance. This false splitting of ether God does it or man does it is just insulting to their collective faith both in God and each other. Could they have done it without God? Probably, but in their terms, they didn't. Some of you people wouldn't allow any role for "God" unless he magicked them out of the ground.
Tony, I do hope you're not seriously suggesting that without faith in God the people who worked to keep those men alive and ultimately rescue them wouldn't have done it. That would be an insult.
Zabadak, that's not entirely true. I don't doubt that their prayers made them feel better - but the fact remains had they relied upon God to save them, they'd have been dead.
AP, Zeus perhaps?
Zabadak, that's not entirely true. I don't doubt that their prayers made them feel better - but the fact remains had they relied upon God to save them, they'd have been dead.
AP, Zeus perhaps?
why didn't he 'magick them out of the ground' does he only do above ground, like swatting planes out of the sky or organising a nice flood or typhoon. When are you believers going to let on what it is god is or isn't able to do. It is all very well to say after the event that god helped with that. You never say 'oh dear god cocked that one up'(again). 'put up or shut up' as the saying goes.
And all I'm saying, Naomi, is that that's a pointless distinction.
In kiddie theology terms, they prayed to God (as did lots of other people around the world) and God answered their prayers through the agency of the rescue teams and everyone else who took part. It seems natural to those who "seized the hand of God, it was the best hand". to give thanks to God for their deliverance even if the "hand" that got them out of there was a tin can called Fenix 2. I wouldn't mind a bet on the majority of the rescue people believing that they were acting in partnership with God.
Jomifl, I did try in my earlier post to indicate some of the "things that God does" in terms of values and inspiration and a few other things. I have "put up". You seem to be obsessed with a kind of extra terrestrial, mechanical kind of god who pushes things around willy nilly, or would only be appreciated if he did something beyond our capacity to explain. Way too unimaginative, way too small.
And I have no difficulty in distinguishing between "swatting a plane out of the sky" and actions inspired by God. I don't think the former is in his nature. You don't think it's within his capability.
In kiddie theology terms, they prayed to God (as did lots of other people around the world) and God answered their prayers through the agency of the rescue teams and everyone else who took part. It seems natural to those who "seized the hand of God, it was the best hand". to give thanks to God for their deliverance even if the "hand" that got them out of there was a tin can called Fenix 2. I wouldn't mind a bet on the majority of the rescue people believing that they were acting in partnership with God.
Jomifl, I did try in my earlier post to indicate some of the "things that God does" in terms of values and inspiration and a few other things. I have "put up". You seem to be obsessed with a kind of extra terrestrial, mechanical kind of god who pushes things around willy nilly, or would only be appreciated if he did something beyond our capacity to explain. Way too unimaginative, way too small.
And I have no difficulty in distinguishing between "swatting a plane out of the sky" and actions inspired by God. I don't think the former is in his nature. You don't think it's within his capability.
Zabadak, but have you considered that the outcome was the same for all regardless of faith, so in fact God didn't answer any prayers. What happened happened - so don't insult those who deserve the credit by attributing their hard work, determination, and success to God. The fact is all those lives were saved - and God did sweet Fanny Adams - and those words haven't been subjected to the AB filter!!
Yes, Naomi, to your first question. But I've already covered that. Many of those whose courage etc accounted for the recovery, I suspect would be much more insulted if you insisted that God had nothing to do with it. Speaking for myself, it doesn't take away from my satisfaction in a job well done if someone says "I thank God for what you did", rather it makes me feel better about what I have done and more in tune with the character of God in my own understanding. Giving thanks God doesn't "insult those who deserve the credit" - it enhances the valuation of their "hard work, determination, and success". Simples 8-)
I`m just wondering how many people that have replied to this thread have been through an extremely life threatening situation and have gone through it without praying whether they are religious or not. My experience is that people pray when they are in a situation that they have no control over and by praying, that gives them a sense of control. Therefore, if they come through that terrible situation unscathed, wouldn`t they want to offer a thank you?
Zabadak, You suspect? Your suspicions are irrelevant. And why thank God for what men did? Your God did zilch so how does that enhance the value of what those men did? Children have imaginary friends but adults should have the courage to abandon their fantasies and face reality. Is it really that difficult to find a honest and give credit where credit is due..
One answer for Jomifl at 23.13: I think God operates principally in the sphere of spirit, inspiration and values, which is one reason why I dislike the idea putting up a tinpot notion of a god who capriciously knocks aeroplanes out of the sky or stir up typhoons just so it can be sneered at.
That's why I made the comment about confusing God and Fate a while back. If we assume that everything that happens is caused by God, we just get confusion.
That's why I made the comment about confusing God and Fate a while back. If we assume that everything that happens is caused by God, we just get confusion.
