Christians & Muslims

[Theland]

Whatever "Team" you support, do you agree that a Christian who sticks closely to the teachings of the New Testament will not ever become a physical threat to anybody, whereas a Muslim who adheres to Koranic teaching, would applaud the violence we see around the world, the latest in Moscow.?

Your chances of being blown up by the former are nil, but by the latter? Increasing daily!

Worldwide, the first step in thwarting these attacks is to study what the koran actually teaches.

Or is it just coincidence that all over the world, the vast majority of terrorist outrages are perpetrated by muslims?

[naomi24]

Sandy, if you listen to Muslim clerics, they will find you suras that state practically anything anyone wants them to state.

Boxy, the point is they do find it in the Koran, so to deny it's there because you don't want it to be there is ridiculous. It's there. Personally I wish the religious - all of them - would stick to reading the Beano. The world would be a happier place.

[Teddy_boy]

I disagree with your initial statement.
The rest is purely speculation on your part , which is based on your own personal views a, opinions and biases.

[sandyRoe]

The West has meddled in the Arab world for a long time. The Islamic fighters wouldn't see themselves as aggressors. I doubt if many of them would really expect a paradise as their reward for taking part in jehad.

[keyplus90]

People who say that Quran is based on OT (or NT) do not seem to understand one simple thing that the similarities are due to the common source. And where these books are not similar those are fabrications in the Bible. And its not only Muslims but even prominent Christian Scholars believe that too. And that is very nicely quoted in Quran.

Quran 2:40. O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.

Quran2:41. And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Quran2:42. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).

As for Jesus (pbuh), if people would act upon his teachings then they would be more Muslims than Jews and that is based on Bible available today.

Theland - As for violence, I know we have done it before but why don't you give me verses in Quran that promote it and I will give you ref from Bible. And let's see who can gather more.

[boxtops]

Oh, I agree with you entirely, naomi - I don't attempt to deny it's there, it's there, and even more powerful if taken out of context in which it was originally said! People of any faith will find justification in whatever holy words they read, to support their actions. I'll dig out my phrase again about personal interpretation - which is why it's so difficult when the different sheikhs make pronouncements which can be in direct conflict with each other - I guess it's the same as the views expressed from time to time by Christian clerics. It's not so long ago that Rowan Williams was in trouble for making some contentious public statement (but no doubt, in his view, true and academically considered as a Christian viewpoint).
The Beano's no good, Dennis the Menace has an unholy dog (but I like him).

[gaspanic]

To be honest mankind blames religion far too often and looks for escape goats constantley, Islam which I believe you mean when you say "muslims" was around far before the invention of bombs, C4's and plastic explosives, it never did promote violence or any form of human destruction.

And I wont point fingers but every being relgious, or not, muslim, christian, sikh, buddist, ,jew, etc etc has bad tendancies and qualities and none of them are triggered by religious teachings it's just humans doing what they know best - destruction.

I personally think we should all kick back and go to MCdonalds and get a mcflurry

[Rasman]

There will never be peace and humanity will destroy itself through outdated, ignorant superstitious beliefs, thinly disguised as moral superiority for as long as religion is recognised.
Ultimately the transcendence of logic, science and democracy in their [Muslim] conquest for world domination we will be ruin of civilisation.

[naomi24]

Sandy,the initial part of your post is worthy of very serious consideration .... but

//I doubt if many of them would really expect a paradise as their reward for taking part in jehad. //

Highly debateable - in my opinion.

Keyplus, of course they're due to a common source. The Old Testament.

Jesus was a Jew. Islam did not exist. Full stop.

[Teddy_boy]

Does it really matter? I cannot fathom why people spend time debating events from history that cannot even be proven.So its written in a book. If thats all the evidence we need then in 2000 years when someone finds a harry potter book they will believe that a young boy lived in a cupboard under the stairs and could do magic.I believe jk rowling has sold over 400 million harry potter books.Should we all worship Mr potter and go on a pilgrimage to hogwarts ?Well " as it was written so shall it be done " as i believe moses brother Rameses II said.

[gaspanic]

God's watching

[naomi24]

Boxy, Rowan Williams never encouraged murder.

Teddy Boy, yes, it matters.

Night all. x

[keyplus90]

Yes of course they were from a common source and that is God.

[keyplus90]

And how much Jesus and Moses were Muslims can easily be seen in the Bible so one does not have to believe in Quran and only need to read their own books. But people like you need not worry as you are neither here nor there.

[boxtops]

Very true, naomi, and I didn't intend to suggest that he did, not how I meant it to come over.
Interesting discussion - but I too must leave it and go to bed, goodnight all!

[sandyRoe]

The only one who really knew what was in the heart of a jehadist would be that man himself. It's as valid a point to say that he was motivated by patriotism as it is to say he took up arms because he thought it was a short cut to paradise.

[Teddy_boy]

Naomi no it doesnt.But the longer people with obscure beliefs and fixations spend online at home debating it , the safer society is.Care inthe community has as much to do with this as a baby born in a manger , who wasnt white , and allegedly was the first artificially inseminated baby , although scientific fact would say it was Louise Brown.This is exactly why im not religious and dont attend church or mosque, thereby managing to avoid the religious bigots on both christian and muslim sides.If either were really as religious as they pontificate to be then they would live in harmony as both religions decree , rather than perpetuate a holy war that was instigated in 1095 by the pope of rome.And we all know how good the popes of rome were from the borgias right up to the present day pope.

[Theland]

It seems a bit odd to me, that after 9/11, 7/7, Moscow, and every other headliner atrocity, we cannot actually draw the very obvious conclusion, that these acts are perpetrated by muslims.
Virtually every news bulletin has something about muslims under suspicion and surveillance, and simple common sense tells me that if I am to end my days being blown to bits, I am 99.99999999999 etc certain that it will be a muslim bomber doing the deed.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - “And how much Jesus and Moses were Muslims can easily be seen in the Bible...”

I love your logic – it's so inverted!

I think that what you're trying to say is that if you look at the philosophies of Moses and Jesus, you think that they are similar to Islamic philosophies today. So as far as you're concerned, Jesus and Moses were actually muslims in all but name. Correct?

But that's so utterly ludicrous! It would be far more honest and logical to say that if Jesus and Moses retrospectively displayed the characterises of Islam, then it is muslims who are actually Jews in all but name. It has to be that way around because Islam wasn't 'created' as a belief system until half a century after Jesus' death/resurrection.

[tamborine]

The current muslim/islamic year is 1425 and not as old as the christian year of 2011, Jesus & Moses couldn't have been muslim as muslim/islamic didn't exist.

[Theland]

I am sorry Keyplus, but I certainly don't have the time to swap verses with you. Really sorry in fact.
The fact is, I am pretty well damned fed up seeing this or that radical cleric bemoaning our way of life, and only a few of them actually admitting their world domination ambitions - the Caliphate.
Businesses in this country are so greedy for profits, that they will take cheap factory fodder from anywhere, and if menial taskers brought in to this country have a hidden agenda, then business doesn't care, but our society suffers from the consequential compromise of security.
There is even a muslim in the cabinet, bemoaning the dinner table test as she puts it.
This country needs to wake up.
Think of the thread question, and think of where the bombs come from.