Christians & Muslims

[Theland]

Whatever "Team" you support, do you agree that a Christian who sticks closely to the teachings of the New Testament will not ever become a physical threat to anybody, whereas a Muslim who adheres to Koranic teaching, would applaud the violence we see around the world, the latest in Moscow.?

Your chances of being blown up by the former are nil, but by the latter? Increasing daily!

Worldwide, the first step in thwarting these attacks is to study what the koran actually teaches.

Or is it just coincidence that all over the world, the vast majority of terrorist outrages are perpetrated by muslims?

[Theland]

To digress a little, I wonder about the beards on muslims? Why? They look so scruffy!

[naomi24]

Keyplus, that really is desperation! I truly find it very difficult to believe that you, as an intelligent human being, are unaware that you're living in a fantasy world. No one can be that ridiculous and still be serious surely! God! How sad it is that Mohammed couldn't come up with an original idea - and sadder still that his deception continues to be accepted as reality.

[keyplus90]

Finally I can only say what I have said before and many have heard it before. But this time I would say ait a bit differently.

I believe intensity of the posts about Islam (and Muslims) have increased since this following news appeared in newspapers.

http://www.dailymail....ace-Muslim-faith.html

In reality people are bit worried or perhaps Islamphobic. I do feel sorry for likes of Theland as majority of these converts were once in his boat. So obviously he has concerns. But perhaps he should try reading “my shopping list” as per my last post and compare that with what he has in his shopping basket. After all it never too late to get things right.

[Rasman]

Keyplus, take another look at your link. Scroll down to the readers comments and click the best voted tab.

The public have spoken.

I particularly like the "Turkeys voting for Christmas" comment.

[naomi24]

Ha ha! And you believe that Keyplus? Of course you do. What a joke. Try this ....

http://wikiislam.net/...People_Who_Left_Islam

And just in case you don't have the courage to click on the link, I'll paste its opening words ....

//Muslims often advertise news of non-Muslims converting to Islam, but they don't tell the other side of the story, where Muslims are also leaving Islam. There are more Muslims leaving Islam today than there are new converts joining it. The sheer volume of recent apostates is unprecedented in the history of Islam. //

Sensible people with minds of their own!!

Dream on Keyplus - or better still do yourself a favour and face reality.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus90 – What on earth are you going on about now? You say, “... I will give you complete comparison between Bible and Quran and you decide if Muslims should be Jews or Jews and Christians should be Muslims...”

I can only assume that my earlier posts were too complicated for you to grasp. It was you who claimed that Jesus and Moses were muslims – which is an utterly moronic suggestion.

I'll say it again so that may sink in;

1. Jesus and Moses were Jews.
2. Islam was invented half a millennium (thanks Naomi) after Jesus's death.
3. Any similarity in Islamic belief and Jewish belief is a result of Islamic plagiarism.
4. If there is similarity, it is correct to say that muslims adopted Jewish philosophies.

It cannot be any other way round Keyplus. If you can't understand this very simple logical progression then there really is no point in debating with you at all. Please at least try to understand for your own sake.

[oranger]

The bottom line to this arguement is that you have more chance of being blown up by a muslim than a christian.

[boxtops]

I've only just come back into this thread tonight. Naomi, my experience of comparative religions wasn't influenced by a couple of weeks in Morocco (as you suggest), it goes back a great deal wider and broader than that, study and writing and personal experience over many years. North African holidays were lovely, but I didn't learn anything I hadn't studied in detail already, in other settings.

There are huge variations in people's perceptions and interpretations of most religions, and whilst we get a great variety of discussion on here, who's to say any of them are wrong in the way they believe, any more than some of them are probably right - if it's what they believe. Our best friends are Pakistani so we are far from ignorant of what goes on there.

I'm not an apologist for anybody, least of all for my own views and comprehension, or for the views or rationality of anyone else on here. Each to their own, it's the discussion and different people's views on the subjects which I find interesting.

[naomi24]

Boxy, really? Curious, because in my experience you are never critical of Islam - and a truly objective student must naturally find some criticism, even if it's fairly insignificant. That observation together with your statement ...

//who's to say any of them are wrong in the way they believe.//

.....only serves to confirm my opinion that you are an apologist. And whilst we're on the subject of....

//who's to say any of them are wrong in the way they believe//

......having read Keyplus' posts here, as the objective observer you apparently claim to be, you surely must rescind that statement.

Night all. x

[boxtops]

Naomi, I'm never critical of Buddhists or Rastafarians either - if that's their way of life then it is, and I respect their choice. I respect the core faiths of those religions for what they represent to their followers, but I don't condone extremists of any faith when they force themselves on others (in the way that militant Islam does).

I post from my own perceptions and understandings, not to criticise others' view of the world. I stand back as an interested observer, it's not my way to challenge others' beliefs - I wouldn't presume to believe that my view on any part of this subject is the only correct one. If that's apologist in your book then so be it, my interest in he topic doesn't go away because of that.

[Rasman]

Boxtops, I too respect other cultures and the rights to their beliefs, you would be a monster if you didn't.

You have mentioned Buddhists and Rastafarians (sp) but when have you heard either of those people emigrating en masse demanding their religion and law be the way of the land in their host nation, backed up with an inherent regime of violence designed to induce terror?

As an impartial observer Boxtops, surely you must see that the Muslims have one single agenda.

[boxtops]

Good point re the faiths I mentioned, rasman, which I accept.

What I can't accept is the view that all Muslims have this "dominate the world" agenda - those of my acquaintance in the UK and elsewhere are happy to co-exist alongside people of other beliefs.

The agenda of the Islamic extremists and terrorists is a completely different matter, and I have no truck with that, any more than I do with other extremist activity - blowing people up and trying to dominate by fear is as abhorrent to me as it is to everyone else.

[society]

"The world would be a better place if people ditched religion altogether. It creates conflict. "

This is the best and most sensible anyone has ever said on this. I'm sure if it's put into practise there'd be peace in the Middle East and all over the world.

[naomi24]

Boxtops, I'm not talking about extremism, but about Keyplus' belief that Islam has always existed and that Moses, Jesus, et al, were Muslims. Despite the fact that Islam came 500 years after Christianity and has without doubt hijacked both Judaism and Christianity, this is what Muslim children - in this country - are being taught. In addition to that their minds are being filled with grossly inaccurate scientific information, and in some schools they learn that Jews are pigs and monkeys - and I believe in some instances that Christians are pigs also. Now you may feel it rather admirable to ask //who's to say any of them are wrong in the way they believe//, but quite frankly, in my opinion anyone who genuinely cares not only about the future of social integration and cohesion in this country, but about the accurate education of its children has a moral duty to say they are wrong - because they are very wrong indeed. History teaches us that there's nothing commendable in closing our eyes to glaring injustice whether it emanates from religious fervour, a lust for power, or from utter stupidity.

Society, thank you.

[keyplus90]

Naomi - I believed every word you say even with or without clicking on that link. In fact I believe what you once posted about 6 million Muslims leaving Islam every year in Africa alone. I have no problem about that apart from one. With 6 million a year I may see Africa without a single Muslim within my life time if not then I will believe that to be a propaganda. Then of course your link proves that few people do leave Islam and not get killed. Which itself is a bit difficult for few (including you) to digest. Good keep thinking.

[keyplus90]

Birdie - for you I can only say that OK, thanks. And the reason is that you are not alone.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, a floundering argument ducking the important issues yet again - and yes - once again we have you crying 'propaganda'. Now let's see. With the Muslim population of Africa estimated by a reputable source to be around 372,000,000 (2009), if 6 million a year leave Islam, even if the rest stopped breeding today you would be highly unlikely to see the continent Muslim-free within your lifetime. And you good at sums too. Tut!

(By the way, an Islamic source claims that there are even more Muslims in Africa - well, it would, wouldn't it - 427,000,000 - and that was in 1996).

[naomi24]

An afterthought Keyplus. You've missed the irony in your post. What you don't like to hear you always deem 'propaganda' - but in an effort to bring some sort of justification to your non-argument you offer a sensationalist Daily Mail article. How funny. :o)

I'll leave you and Birdie alone for the time being. ;o)

[Ankou]

"bottom line to this arguement is that you have more chance of being blown up by a muslim than a christian"

very true. but that depends on where you are, and the current political activity. a couple of decades back in the uk it was the other way round. who knows where the cycle might end or whether the next round of terrorists will be hari krishnas!