Very Sad News Indeed …

[seekeerz]

So very saddened to read that Graham Thorpe ended his own life.   His family has spoken of their sorrow seeing how difficult his life had become.

[Prudie]

Whilst it's positive that some of you can share your pain and experience of mental health, depression and suicides on here never assume that others aren't sympathetic or lucky so don't  understand. Many wouldn't dream of sharing such informaton online, certainly not on AB  and it's unfair to chastise them.   

[Arksided]

It is very sad news I've being listening about him on 'talksport' without knowing who he were beforehand... very sad news indeed. R.I.P fella.

[naomi24]

Absolutely right, Prudie.

[andy-hughes]

Prudie - // ... never assume that others aren't sympathetic or lucky so don't  understand. //

I try not to assume anything.

My responses are directly to posts and posters on the thread.

[Barmaid]

//You have to start from the basic premise that anyone who kills themselves is not thinking rationally - if they were, they would not be suicides.

Therefore, any semblence of rational thought, and that includes thought for anyone else, including, family, friends, and anyone who may have to deal with the aftermath of the death, is simply not there, it disappeared a long time ago.//

 

I think to say that someone who takes their own life is not acting rationally is wrong and imposes morality on the choice that they have made – it also continues to stigmatise someone taking their own life.  “They did it because they were not thinking rationally” “they were being selfish” are phrases I often hear.  I suspect that this view goes back to the time when suicide was considered a sin by the church with burial being disallowed in consecrated ground and a finding of “suicide whilst suffering a disorder of the mind” was common-place.   Suicide was still a crime in the UK within living memory.

 

To say that any semblance of rational thought has long since disappeared, I think is also wrong – some people are impulsive and others pre-meditated.  Because someone reaches the wrong conclusions on the impact on others of their choices, does not necessarily make their thought processes irrational. 

 

There is quite clearly a concept of “rational suicide” although the academics disagree on this.  For example, those who are terminally ill who choose to die whilst they can still make that decision; or those who choose to die to escape their own crime – eg Shipman and West.  Is the opposite “Irrational suicide”?  There are a multitude of reasons why someone takes their own life, but generalising that someone who takes their own life is not capable of rational thought is an understandable conclusion but not necessarily correct.  A young widow I met recently said to me that she hates the fact that everyone judges her husband as irrational, selfish, unbalanced, troubled, etc and she is sick of the comments she gets from well-meaning people.  Were it not for her and the robust comments she had made, I probably would not have written this.

A very tragic event and I have enormous sympathy for all those who will feel the impact for some considerable time.

[andy-hughes]

Barmaid - // There are a multitude of reasons why someone takes their own life, but generalising that someone who takes their own life is not capable of rational thought is an understandable conclusion but not necessarily correct. //

I do take your point - but I failed to make it clear that I was confining my views to the type of suicide that was the late Mr Thorpe, since he is the individual whose tragic death has started this thread in the first place.

If there is a more general thread on the subject of suicide, I will be delighted to broaden my argument, because of course I am not discounting the types of suicide you pointed out in your response.

However, for the purposes of this thread, I perhaps over-generalised, and I appreciate your pointing that out, I will try to be more careful to explain the perameters of my argument in future.