questions for christians

[wizard69]

You say that the bible is the innerant word of God and without contradiction so it should be a simple matter to answer a few questions for me.I ask you a question and you look up the appropriate bible answer for me (complete with chapter and verse).O.k ?
1) does the Earth abide forever?
2)has anyone ever seen God?
3)does God punish children for their fathers sins?
4)are the dead ressurected?
5)has anyone (apart from jesus) ascended into heaven?6)at what hour was jesus crucified?
7)how long was jesus in the tomb?
If the bible is innerant this should be easy for you.If its contradictory it might pose problems and cause you (as it did me) to question whether it is reliable.

[WaldoMcFroog]

An elegant response, but it doesn't actually work. Mark, Luke and Matthew all state that the meal enjoyed *was* a passover meal, not one from the day before.

"Mark 14:12-17 - And on the first day of the unleavened bread, when they sacrificed the passover lamb, his disciples...went to the city...and they prepared the passover. And when it was evening he came with the twelve and they were at the table eating."

Would you argue that the first verse there describes the rituals associated with the 'Seder', the first feast meal of Passover? Perhaps the meal is so yummy that Jesus wanted to have it the day before too? Is this really credible?

John 13:1-2 claims, "It was just before passover feast... the evening meal was served."

So it's not the passover meal. Sorry, but the versions are incompatible, and I've read (I regret I've lost the source) that this is because John needs to identify Jesus with the slaughter of the passover lamb, thus creating a fullfilment of some 'prophesy' in Isiah that blatantly discusses how to sacrifice animals with not one jot of evidence to suggest it's supposed to be read as a prophesy.

As it happens, I *have* read the entire bible, admittedly quite a long time ago and with no particular desire to repeat the experience whilst so many better works of fiction demand my time. It is incoherant, immoral, solves its problems through violence, pro-ethnic cleansing, unethical, contradictory (how can Genesis provide two contradictory accounts of the... er... genesis?), unethical and of entirely dubious providence. Perhaps more important than any of this is the fact that if Jesus were the messiah, he is supposed to fulfil a whole raft of prophesies that provably have not come to pass, not least of which is 'an end to sin'. I am entirely unable to agree with your conclusions in this or previous posts that God as portrayed in the bible, even if I could accept he existed, is

[WaldoMcFroog]

(missing ending) is worthy of my devotion.

(And apologies for 'unethical' twice.)

[rosie posie]

mibn2cweus........yeeeaaaahhhhh maaaan ....lol

[wizard69]

rosie posie, my sentiments exactly.That is why I post such provocative questions--to expose religion for the evil that it is.As Waldo has noted the bible is incoherant,immoral, solves its problems through violence, unethical and contradictory, etc.This is a far cry from what you would hear from the pulpits of many churches where they want a sanitized god--gentle jesus meak and mild.It never fails to amuse me (and at the same time saddens me) when I see sunday school pictures of Noah's ark with all the little cuddley animals on board and all the children are singing about how kind their "heavenly father" is.
"All things bright and beatiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God DROWNED them all"

Nah...dont think the truth about the bible will catch on somehow.There's a blind spot in believers

[Lighter]

Quote from Wizard - "That is why I post such provocative questions--to expose religion for the evil that it is."

You're quite off target then. If I were attempting to expose religion as evil I probably would have started with Islam.
Basically you're just anti-christian, and I guess it piques your pride or whatever that you should be answerable to God.

Waldo - I'm afraid it's too late at night to go through the passover again, but I mentioned that it was a feast that lasted a week or so, commencing the 14th day of the month, with the 15th being a special day also that required preparation for.
And I'm not sure if John 13:1 is referring to one of the many other evening meals Christ had with His disciples, I think He had one in Bethany a couple of nights before passover.

But I'm intrigued by your assertion that there are two creation accounts in Genesis. Care to elaborate?
There is definitely only one, I think you may be confusing the Creation with that of the 'mini' creation in the Garden of Eden.

[wizard69]

it piques my pride that i'm answerable to God?? how can that be if I dont believe i God? Your logic is way off.You may as well say that it piques my pride because I'm answerable to Santa at xmas.
Anti christian? I'm anti anything that is illogical and that includes islam but there doesnt appear to be many muslims on A.B.
Lighter...for someone who professes to belong to a religion of love, you come across as an arrogant self righteous bigot. (just an observation)

[WaldoMcFroog]

Honestly mate, if you're seriously going to even attempt to go down that sort of hooky post-hoc rationalisation, completely unsupported by exegesis, then let's not bother, eh?

The stories are flagrantly contradictory. Any attempt to make it not so relies on huge leaps of logic entirely unsupported by the text itself (namely, 'oh, when the creation story talks about God creating all thing things, it didn't mean in the Garden of Eden', something patently nonsensical).

I'm sorry though, as I thought we were having a sensible discussion.

[Theland]

Do you not think that the Bible has ANYTHING to say about the human condition? Its problems and solutions? The history of the Jews? The future of Israel, and indeed all of us?
Is it just coincidence that the scenarios being played out in the Middle East are described in detail in the Bible?
Yes, mock the Bible as much as you like, but you cannot get away from these simple truths.

[mibn2cweus]

"My God's bigger than your God" is the prescription for what's happening in the Middle East. Spice that up a bit with some self-righteous forgiveness of sins and an "Our God would have us have your oil" moral prerogative and it would appear that Christians will not be satisfied with there ability to fulfill their "prophecies" (cough *goals* cough) until the last decent specimen of humanity has been sent home in a box.
Islam vs. Christianity / dynamite and the fuse.

[wizard69]

Theland. No, I dont think that the bible has anything to say about the human condition.Most of the bible was written by bronze age nomadic goat herders who had (understandably) little knowledge of the human psyche.The science of psychology has increased greatly since those days.During new testament times mental illnesses were percieved to be demonic or due to "sin".Only the most superstitious of people would now accept these ideas.
Wars, killings , murder? Sorry Theland but thats the way it is.Humans are terratorial animals (like many others) and I doubt it will ever change.Nature is red in tooth and claw as they say.Survival of the fittest.Problems and solutions?
There is no solution to any 'problem', because nature just IS.