eternal torture in hell...

[natas liah]

and a god of love?
is that what they call an oxymoron?

[ludwig]

I know it wouldn't be for you to decide, it would be for god, but what is the official guidance on this from the vatican - What do they say is the fate of the non-evil doing non-believer? It's a serious question.
I've asked this before, and people (not sure if it was you ) said 'If you don't believe why do you care?' which is a copout. I can still be interested in the answer without being too concerned about it can't I?

[Octavius]

My reference to not being concerned was really rather directed towards the possible discovery that if there is no God, then there would be no hell. So you would not need to be concerned about going to hell since it wouldn�t exist.

Spe Salvi facti sumus, ludwig. In hope we are saved. The Kingdom of God is a gift, it is great and beautiful, and constitutes the response to our hope. We do not �merit� Heaven - it is a gift, just as being loved is never something presumed, but always a gift. Pureness in the individual is recognised by God.

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.

Hell is the place you go when you reject God�s love at Judgement. The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God � not necessarily the eternal fires of medieval scaremongers. One would surmise that if you are a non-believer faced with the real evidence that contradicts this, then if you maintain this stance and reject the salvation offered, you will turn away from the Kingdom of God, towards your own gehenna.

[ludwig]

Ok. Thankyou Octavius.

[natas liah]

Octavious, even the sins of Hitler, I would argue, DO NOT MERIT ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. Punishment of the most severest kind, yes, but to make it ETERNAL is barbaric and sick in the extreme. And according to your bible its not only the likes of Hitler that suffer this barbaric punishment but ANY unbeliever. So someone that might have devoted their lives to helping others, loving their families, and giving their time to charity....but were atheist in their belief... would suffer eternally. You, giving the (obvious) example of Hitler, only detracts from the facts and does nothing for your credability as it is so see through as to be laughable. (touch a nerve and lets go for the extreme example so that we can divert the attention to something else)

[natas liah]

ETERNAL punishment for FINITE sins?
God not practicing his eye for an eye then rule then?

[Octavius]

Well yes, Hitler (I think I also said Stalin) was a unique example as he is one of the uniquely evil people in living memory. I could of course have listed many others, but to the erudite that would seem unnecessary and futile. Your question refers to a loving God committing people to eternal torture. It is possible that even Hitler, or to satiate your ambiguity, say Genghis Khan, Atilla the Hun, Vlad III, Ivan the Terible and Pol Pot turned from God.

Should we expect God to love the people who could show no love for their brother sisters?

I am bemused you find my �credibility so see through as to be laughable� from what I have written, one would assume this is demonstrative of an infantile mind. But you are entitled to your opinions, albeit rather personal. In the Bible we also have �if you are struck on the cheek, then you should turn the other� and �do unto me as I have done unto you�. But I have tried not to resort to random analogies, since there are always arguments and counter arguments to justify and negate any opinion.

I have explained above my understanding of eternal punishment, if that doesn�t suitably answer your question then whatever will be will be.

[Clanad]

Problem is, human judgement of that which constitutes sin has as its basis comparisons of only human actions. By that I mean, we gradiate sin; some worse than others, whereas God (of the Bible) sees all sin as the same in light of His infinite holiness... but... He has made a way for that sin to be paid for... a Price we, individually, could never pay. My point would be that God honors, exactly, that which human chooses. God places no man (or woman) in hell, man says, over and over he/she does not want God and that wish is honored, however sadly by God. At which man then rages as unfair...

[keyplus90]

God will not forgive anyone who associates partners with him. That is The only sin God will never forgive. Apart from that he may forgive whatever he wills. Your sins are cleared against your good deeds, Illness and trouble in life are other ways of clearing your sins because you remember God in that situation more than when you are happy and prosperous. Wealth is one of the tests by God which most of the people fail.

Then are the sins committed against other human, confiscation of their rights etc. Those would not be forgiven and your good deeds would be granted to your victims. That is to make this world think and care about fellow human beings. At the end punishments in the hell are unimaginable as there are no examples in this world.

[Robb Phoenix]

Quote:
"God will not forgive anyone who associates partners with him. That is The only sin God will never forgive."

Bid Gandhi goodbye to hell.

LOL!!!!!!!!

[keyplus90]

So what is special about Gandhi, that he can not go to hell. You see the concept of Hell and Paradise (if you believe it it) depends on a belief in God. So if you do not have a proper believe in God then what would you expect.

To apply for a Visa of any country you have to accept the existence of that country. Then Gandhi should have looked into his own religious scriptures and he would have found that there is only one God.

[Robb Phoenix]

"The best way to serve God is to serve mankind."
"God helps those who help themselves"
All major religions other than Islam like Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism etc believe in one supreme lord of the universe and all things in existence are underneath him. They don't believe in Muhammad as the
Prophet.

Quote:

"God will not forgive anyone who associates partners with him. That is The only sin God will NEVER forgive."

God may forgive Osama Bin Laden and his cronies but NEVER forgive Gandhi and other sinless , pure Hindus.


"So what is special about Gandhi, that he can not go to hell."
hahahahahahahahhaha
Give me one reason why he should.

[keyplus90]

He declared his wife as his sister. To bluff people when he had other three women with him as his believers or followres. Who killed him and why. Do you have any idea. As far as Osama Bin Laden is concerned, He was once hero to the west as well. Allh or God does not decide taking into consideration that Who likes the person and who does not. However if Osama has killed innocent people then he would be answerable for that, I have no doubt about it. Any way, where di you get idea that Christians and Hindu's believe in One God. Or One supreme and what about the others. Hre are few for your attention.
http://www.saigan.com/heritage/gindex.html

[keyplus90]

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php /gandhis-secret-love-affair-savitri-353723.htm l

[keyplus90]

I think this might be enough as you asked for it. Now time to go to bed. Not like Gandhi atleast.

http://rupeenews.com/2007/12/25/six-stories-of -mohandas-gandhi-his-failures-sexual-perversio n/

[Robb Phoenix]

Why even I can take a Leaders picture and tarnish important people by giving fake facts.You think Muhammad had no flaws?I can give you thousand websites tarnishing him and the Quran.Do you believe everything you read?
It may not be that all of them are true.

You appear to be very less informed about the Hindus.I have read the Bhagvad Gita.There may be millions of Gods or Goddesses that they worship but they believe all Gods are under ONE SUPREME LORD.

[keyplus90]

If You have read Bhagvad Gita then you should know that even Hindu Scriptures talk about Muhammad (pbuh). In regard to media facts or propaganda. If someone knows the history and read all the facts then it does not take more than two minutes to see the difference. You may like to give as many bad things about Muhammad (pbuh) as you have but that does and will not change the reality.Any way you asked about Gandhi so I gave you the link. Otherwise I have nothing to do with him. Your concept of Supreme Gods and then his party of Juniors is known as Shirk. As you have spent 16 years in Saudi Arabia then you should be able to know what I am talking about. God does not need subordinate or junior gods.