Civilisation

[boviner]

If we discovered another planet that was primitive and we had acces to it how would we bring it into the our future ? slowly or at a faster rate than our evolution providing they wanted to advance.

[Rev.Crowley]

Sure, rogersaurus, human beings are a wonderful race. So freakin' wonderful that they allow half the world to starve so that Western countries can throw away food and wars are created so that human resources can be used up and profit made. The Beast is in us all, man. Read Lord of the Flies.

[Darkmoon]

You have to admit, that no matter how many wonderful things that human beings accomplish, we do so at a price, or in an attmpt to 'fix' the mistakes we've made before. We may be 'progressing' but at what price. I read somewhere once that human behaviour in regards to population and procreation resembled that of the virus. Think about it. We conquer, we destroy, we create - what? Things for ourselves, and how often do we think of the planet we live on, or of those who have not? And what about all the things we to destroy? The human race is a paradox. We love and hate in the same breath. If you want optimism, start with your own behaviour.

[rogersaurus]

Oh my God. Rev - you're in the wrong job. I don't just allow people to starve, I donate regularly to charities who do sterling work to help the less fortunate. Do all you moaners? Or do you just sit on your arses whinging into your PC? Wars are often fought in the name of freedom. That's a bad thing is it? Darkman - You keep referring to 'we', but I don't recognise myself in anything you say. There are 6 billion people on this Earth, every one different. As for your last statement, I absolutley agree wholeheartedly, and am glad you agree with me. Einstein - your 'facts' are inconclusive. The UK was just as hot 100 years ago as today, with a drop in climate in between. The hottest period in this country of the last 2000 years is believed to have been in the early 13th century. Apart from the odd Robin Reliant, there weren't many cars around back then. You won't be complaining when the next Ice Age comes (and it WILL come). It is arrogant to believe we can significantly alter the global climate. One large volcanic eruption puts more pollution into the air than all the human made pollutants in history. FACT. Recent scientific opinion (including NASA) accepts this view.

[rogersaurus]

As for helping solve the world's problems, well, eradicating smallpox, bringing water to drought areas, Bill Gates' $100 million grant to treat AIDS in India, all seem to defy your pessimism. I'm not denying that bad things happen, of course they do, but I'm presenting the balance to the argument. If you were all preaching how great we are, I'd be highlighting some of those bad things, but no one ever seems to want to give our race any credit. I do regular charity work because I believe in the power of the human spirit (no, I'm not religious). If you are so dismayed, get off your arses and do something about it, rather than complaining uselessly. Maybe some of you do, but certainly not everyone does. Incidently, I don't think we should interfere with another culture, they would be best advised to learn from their own mistakes as we have. You may be one of these 'arrogant humans' Einstein, but I am not. I am a humble and grateful person. And if you all genuinely feel as pessimistic and depressed as you sound, I feel very sorry for you indeed. You are missing out on a wonderful life.

[rogersaurus]

It's such a shame Einstein that your passion on this subject clearly blinkers your opinion. Obviously you did not read my post properly. You have ignored things I wrote and put words into my mouth on other occasions. 1) I didn't claim that no one else does nothing to help (charity work etc.), I actually wrote "maybe some of you do", but you chose to ignore that to suit your bigoted argument. Not everyone does help and some are happy to sit and moan and not try to do anything about it. Do you deny this? 2) The global warming issue is one we clearly won't agree on. All I will say is that you demonstrate extreme arrogance in saying that it is an undisputed fact, which it clearly is not. I for one (as a student previously of geosciences) and many others dispute this and give reasoned and valid arguments. Therefore it is still in dispute. Also, I think you greatly underestimate the effect that volcanic eruptions can have, I would certainly never describe the damage they cause as short-term. "Unprecedented global warming" is also incorrect. We can go back millions of years to prove this, but you wouldn't take any notice. I don't deny that pollution of the air in cities and the continued use of exhaustable fuels is a problem. I'm probably more of an environmentalist than you give me credit for.

[rogersaurus]

3) I did answer the question set, and agreed that we should not interfere with any extraterrestrial culture. Another aspect of my post which you obviously ignored whilst composing your rant. 4) Finally, and most insultingly of all, you claim that I implied that war can be a good thing. I SAID NO SUCH THING. I said "Wars are often fought in the name of freedom. That's a bad thing is it?" which in no way claims that the act of war is good, but rather that the reasons for war are sometimes justified, namely the fight for freedom. Don't lecture me on how evil the Nazis were, this is patronising in the extreme. Being of Polish Jewish decent, I lost many relatives at the hands of the Nazis, with some of them being fortunate enough to be in the 12% which managed to avoid death. They escaped the war and fled to this country, this land of FREEDOM. If they hadn't, I and many people like me would not be here today. We fought for freedom. Of course this is a good thing. Should we have just rolled over to avoid war? Of course not. I am appalled and disgusted that you claim that I stated that the act of war is a good thing. I did no such thing, and had our real names been used in this discussion, I would sue you for libel. That is absolutely disgraceful behaviour. You have put words into my mouth to make me out to be something I'm not, and I am deeply offended. It's a shame you have to resort to this kind of act, as well as reading my post not objectively, but through 'Einstein-tinted' spectacles.

[Napoleon]

Will no one rid us of these squabbling bores?

[Rev.Crowley]

I don't find them boring, Napoleon, it is quite a lively and heated debate. Reading between the lines of Einstein and rogersaurus, though, the crux of the matter is about the weakness or the strength of humanity. Personally, I think we should realise that we humans are not God, so to speak, and only after recognising this can we hope to go forward.

[Napoleon]

Forward to where?

[Rev.Crowley]

Where indeed, Napoleon? But that's another question.

[gazzawazza]

Oops Boviner, you opened a can of worms here didn't you?

[rogersaurus]

I notice that Einstein's offensive post has been removed. I do not know whether this was at the request of Einstein himself, but either way a follow-up post of apology or explanation would not be amiss. Whether Einstein is man enough to do this remains to be seen...

[rogersaurus]

I suspected not. What cowardice.