The Vini Jones Ad!

[TWR]

What would you & how would you try to help someone that has had a heart attack?

[arfurdaley]

"push here on the sovereign" priceless!!

[boxtops]

I think the ad's excellent, it's really brought it to people's attention - I love the "here's one I made earlier" body!

[LoftyLottie]

Please don't confuse cardiac arrests with heart attacks! Heart attacks can cause cardiac arrests.

[LoftyLottie]

Yes it is a good advert.

[Stephen_G]

Could someone put me right about locating your hands on someone's chest? I seem to remember being told to find the bone where the top of the ribcage meets (This is where I'm a bit stuck), then place two fingers beside this bone and then locate the base of the hand and then put the other hand over the top. Is that right?

to answer the question, I'm not sure I'd be confident to treat either a heart attack victim or someone who had stopped breathing. I'd call for an Ambulance and give up a warm layer (Or something to cushion the head) though.

[237SJ]

They`re forever changing the guidelines. They used to say place two fingers at the base of the sternum then the heel of the hand next to those fingers. They now say place the heel of the hand in the middle of the chest.

[Buenchico]

Judge N:
The rule I was taught was to forget about counting ribs or anything like that: "PRESS ON THE TIT LINE!"

[LoftyLottie]

Heart attack, or even chest pain which indicates heart attack, warrants an immediate 999 call and a patient should lie on their side to ease breathing.

[LoftyLottie]

That presumes that one's tits are where they should be :o(

[boxtops]

If you're not confident, don't do it, call for help.

[johne1892]

My trianing was:
1) Interlocked hands on the 'tit line' (thanks Chris)
2) Straighten your arms
3) Push HARD to rhythm of Staying Alive.
4) If you crack their ribs....keep going

[boxtops]

we were taught to the tune of Nellie the Elephant.....

[China Doll]

I'd help by phoning for an ambulance, staying with them and shouting as loudly and clearly as I could for someone who knew CPR. I don't know how to do it, I've never been formally trained and I can't remember what day it is let alone a whole advert of instuctions.

Fortunately I mainly hang out in a hospital so I'm pretty sure no one is ever going to call the PA to help out in a medical crisis... :c)

[237SJ]

It`s speeded up a lot now. They`ve just increased it from 100 compressions a minute to 100 - 120.

[missprim]

Chris do you have a link to the Dept of health video training video so I can assess if you deserve an oscar?

[Buenchico]

MissP:
Hopefully that video is deeply buried somewhere in the depths of the DoH's basement!

[ChuckFickens]

"Hopefully that video is deeply buried somewhere in the depths of the DoH's basement!"

I tried, but couldn't find it!

And LOL at lottie! CPR on the knees :)

[missprim]

No chuckfickens that's only when we are standing up, lying down they go under our armpits!

[nfn]

If you can't remember the beat to Stayin' Alive, try Nellie the Elephant (used every year since I qualified and still going strong)

[Sqad]

The evidence for chest compressions is very good. Chest compressions improve coronary perfusion pressure and there is a direct link between coronary perfusion pressures and the success of defibrillation. In the first five minutes the arrest is essentially an electrical problem and the chest compressions help in this aspect. The degree of hypoxia and hypercarbia produced in the first five minutes is acceptable but not ideal. Once we get to the five minute point the problem becomes a metabolic one and hence good ventilation to remove CO2 and help correct acidosis becomes an issue along with reversing hypoxia. Of course improved ventilation is just part of the problem correcting the metabolic and respiratory acidosis. The concern has been that many people are reluctant to perform mouth to mouth and will then often decided that if they are not going to do that then the compressions are a waste of time. Good compressions and ventilations are important but if there is any trouble performing the two ventilations the operator should move quickly onto the compressions. If someone is unwilling to do mouth to mouth then chest compressions alone are acceptable.


In terms of stimulating breathing. In a primary cardiac arrest the pt has stopped breathing because of inadequate perfusion of the respiratory centres of the brain. Once circulation and adequate perfusion is achieved then the level of acidosis (the primary drive for ventilation) and the level of hypoxia will rapidly stimulate breathing. So what is the point of mouth to mouth...to limit hypoxic damage during the arrest......it is not really there in an attempt to stimulate the patient to breath. Where mouth mouth becomes deleterious is where it delays good chest compressions.


The other key issue is that most members of the public are very poor at assessing the presence or absence of a pulse. There is a very high false positive rate. The current advice is to ignore the pulse check and simply start CPR where there are no signs of life and the pt is not breathing normally (agonal breaths are often present).