ChatterBank2 mins ago
A question for the Atheists
8 Answers
Okay I've got a question for the Atheists and it comes in three parts. I'm interested to hear your views on this.
Before I start lets keep it friendly and to a serious discussion.
I think that the atheistic world view throws up a number of questions that can only be answered through the existance of God - I will give you three of these questions, I'm sure you have some answers but I'm interested to hear what you say.
1/ Why do we uniformly admire nature and see so much beauty in it? For many of us it's not been our families natural surrounding for generations, we live in urban areas surrounded by concrete and man-made structures. Why do we prefer nature to what we have made ourselves?
2/ If there is no God how can the religious experience be explained? The vast majority of people believe in God or the supernatural. Faith is often dismissed as a comfort blanket or brain washing for the weak minded but how do you explain the highly intelligent, analytical and in some cases committed atheists who have converted. I could give you loads of examples but just look up the Rev R G Rindfuss who "tried to free the religious from slavery" but later went onto become a Christian and then a Church Minister or A.S.A Jones - a hardcore devout atheist who later became committed to following the bible.
3/ Science exists because the universe is consistent and has we can describe as "laws," e.g the law of gravity. If the universe and/or things in it were formed by chance, why should the behavior of the universe be so predictable instead of random?
Before I start lets keep it friendly and to a serious discussion.
I think that the atheistic world view throws up a number of questions that can only be answered through the existance of God - I will give you three of these questions, I'm sure you have some answers but I'm interested to hear what you say.
1/ Why do we uniformly admire nature and see so much beauty in it? For many of us it's not been our families natural surrounding for generations, we live in urban areas surrounded by concrete and man-made structures. Why do we prefer nature to what we have made ourselves?
2/ If there is no God how can the religious experience be explained? The vast majority of people believe in God or the supernatural. Faith is often dismissed as a comfort blanket or brain washing for the weak minded but how do you explain the highly intelligent, analytical and in some cases committed atheists who have converted. I could give you loads of examples but just look up the Rev R G Rindfuss who "tried to free the religious from slavery" but later went onto become a Christian and then a Church Minister or A.S.A Jones - a hardcore devout atheist who later became committed to following the bible.
3/ Science exists because the universe is consistent and has we can describe as "laws," e.g the law of gravity. If the universe and/or things in it were formed by chance, why should the behavior of the universe be so predictable instead of random?
Answers
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Three answers just for now:
1. We see beauty in nature because it's there. And no-one has demonstrated that beauty more lovingly, caringly and graphically than the atheist Richard Dawkins in his book Unweaving the Rainbow. What has this got to do with a belief in a supernatural being who does magic things and for whose existence there is not a scrap of evidence?
2. "If there is no God how can the religious experience be explained?"
"If the earth is not flat why did countless millions of people believe that it was for millennia?"
"If the stars and planets don't rule our lives why do so many people read their horoscopes every morning>?"
"If the is no evidence that Fridays the 13th are bad days then....."
And so on... Since when was there a rule which says that if enough people believe something for long enough it must be true?
I have no idea why individual atheists change their minds. What I do know is that, when they do so, it is not because they have suddenly found some amazing new evidence or argument. Gods are very seductive.
3. Since no-one has any idea how the universe was formed your assumption that any sensible person asserts that it was 'formed by chance' is invalid. The claim that it was made by some sort of god raises the question (expressed many times but never answered) as to who made that god?..and so on, again. The intelligent attitude is "We don't know." Those who think they do know have a duty to tell us what they know, backed with facts, evidence, reason, logic... oh, what am I talking about ? - they never have so why should they start now?
1. We see beauty in nature because it's there. And no-one has demonstrated that beauty more lovingly, caringly and graphically than the atheist Richard Dawkins in his book Unweaving the Rainbow. What has this got to do with a belief in a supernatural being who does magic things and for whose existence there is not a scrap of evidence?
2. "If there is no God how can the religious experience be explained?"
"If the earth is not flat why did countless millions of people believe that it was for millennia?"
"If the stars and planets don't rule our lives why do so many people read their horoscopes every morning>?"
"If the is no evidence that Fridays the 13th are bad days then....."
And so on... Since when was there a rule which says that if enough people believe something for long enough it must be true?
I have no idea why individual atheists change their minds. What I do know is that, when they do so, it is not because they have suddenly found some amazing new evidence or argument. Gods are very seductive.
3. Since no-one has any idea how the universe was formed your assumption that any sensible person asserts that it was 'formed by chance' is invalid. The claim that it was made by some sort of god raises the question (expressed many times but never answered) as to who made that god?..and so on, again. The intelligent attitude is "We don't know." Those who think they do know have a duty to tell us what they know, backed with facts, evidence, reason, logic... oh, what am I talking about ? - they never have so why should they start now?
Finger...not sure that I can add much more to what chakka has already said, but here's my view.
1) I love nature.Im happiest when Im by the sea or in the country.I dont understand why this should mean that there must be a God.Nature is beatiful in its own right.However there is a flip side to this.Do we admire nature when theres an earthquake, volcano eruption or tsunami, that kills thousands? Do we see God then or do we see the destructive power of nature?
2)Just as there are atheists who convert to religion, there are religionists who convert to atheism (and ive known quiet a lot myself).Here's one minister who did just that..
http://ffrf.org/about/bio_dan.php
Again, it cuts two ways.
3)I cant really add to what chakka has already said on this one.
To my mind, having a belief in God throws up many more question than does atheism. If you have this belief in God, then exactly which God? Im sure Finger, that you have no belief in Odin or Thor and yet people once did.Why is your belief any different from theirs? If we look at the present day, many people believe in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.Why dont you accept these gods?
After spending years searching (and researching) the only logical and viable world view seems to be atheism.
1) I love nature.Im happiest when Im by the sea or in the country.I dont understand why this should mean that there must be a God.Nature is beatiful in its own right.However there is a flip side to this.Do we admire nature when theres an earthquake, volcano eruption or tsunami, that kills thousands? Do we see God then or do we see the destructive power of nature?
2)Just as there are atheists who convert to religion, there are religionists who convert to atheism (and ive known quiet a lot myself).Here's one minister who did just that..
http://ffrf.org/about/bio_dan.php
Again, it cuts two ways.
3)I cant really add to what chakka has already said on this one.
To my mind, having a belief in God throws up many more question than does atheism. If you have this belief in God, then exactly which God? Im sure Finger, that you have no belief in Odin or Thor and yet people once did.Why is your belief any different from theirs? If we look at the present day, many people believe in Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.Why dont you accept these gods?
After spending years searching (and researching) the only logical and viable world view seems to be atheism.
Morning Fingerprint, I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, although you probably would, because you're talking about your god, and I don't believe he exists.
Nature and everything in it is part of a whole - the universe - and man can never compete with nature in the beauty stakes. I know what you're getting at here, but I cannot believe that your god, who according to you, cares only about the people of earth, created all this - and moreover, created it just for us. We have to look at a far wider picture.
Perhaps intelligent people turn to god because no one has an ultimate explanation for the birth of the universe. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they turn to your god. If they are intelligent, then their minds will stretch far beyond that.
The laws of science cannot, by their very nature, be random. That again is nature.
Nature and everything in it is part of a whole - the universe - and man can never compete with nature in the beauty stakes. I know what you're getting at here, but I cannot believe that your god, who according to you, cares only about the people of earth, created all this - and moreover, created it just for us. We have to look at a far wider picture.
Perhaps intelligent people turn to god because no one has an ultimate explanation for the birth of the universe. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they turn to your god. If they are intelligent, then their minds will stretch far beyond that.
The laws of science cannot, by their very nature, be random. That again is nature.
While we're all eagerly awaiting a reply to Wizard�s last question . . .
The beauty of nature is best observed from a non-lethal distance, liberated from it�s fury by knowledge of its potential to do harm. It is experience with and understanding of nature�s attributes and behaviors, that enables us to predict and protect ourselves from its shortcomings. Belief in God and life beyond the grave make all the proceeding pointless and life itself a meaningless struggle. When taking a moment out of your busy day to admire �God�s handy work� remember to make sure your not standing on a hill of fire ants or about to trip over a snake or tumble onto a cactus or be struck by lightning or mauled by a bear.
Nature does not favor or keep score with any religion or care about where, when or how we die and if the smell and appearance of a rotting corpse does not inform you of the finality of death perhaps your not asking the right questions. Atheism does not entitle one to special considerations from nature either but even if all atheists are wrong about everything else this does not make one non-atheist right.
A winter blizzard is somehow more beautiful observed through a glass paned window while enjoying the warmth of a burning fireplace and a cup of hot chocolate in the company of someone with a rational mind.
The beauty of nature is best observed from a non-lethal distance, liberated from it�s fury by knowledge of its potential to do harm. It is experience with and understanding of nature�s attributes and behaviors, that enables us to predict and protect ourselves from its shortcomings. Belief in God and life beyond the grave make all the proceeding pointless and life itself a meaningless struggle. When taking a moment out of your busy day to admire �God�s handy work� remember to make sure your not standing on a hill of fire ants or about to trip over a snake or tumble onto a cactus or be struck by lightning or mauled by a bear.
Nature does not favor or keep score with any religion or care about where, when or how we die and if the smell and appearance of a rotting corpse does not inform you of the finality of death perhaps your not asking the right questions. Atheism does not entitle one to special considerations from nature either but even if all atheists are wrong about everything else this does not make one non-atheist right.
A winter blizzard is somehow more beautiful observed through a glass paned window while enjoying the warmth of a burning fireplace and a cup of hot chocolate in the company of someone with a rational mind.
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