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Psychic Feelings
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Do you believe that - maybe even have examples of - some people can somehow sense what you're thinking or feeling even if they're a long distance away and haven't seen in you in a long while?
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In reply to your latest question, society, I don't think telekinesis can exist even more than psychic abilities because that would be an interaction between ordinary matter.
Some surprisingly high-profile scientists have investigated the possibility and, so far, nothing for that either. One would have thought that telekinesis were more easily testable. It has yet to pass that test.
Some surprisingly high-profile scientists have investigated the possibility and, so far, nothing for that either. One would have thought that telekinesis were more easily testable. It has yet to pass that test.
"Jim
I did an initial calculation earlier assuming that you needed to be close to someone in order to be able to "read" them that suggested a remarkably high probability of such psychic feelings occurring, although that was almost literally back-of-the-envelope."
Animals have this ability, and why not mankind? I've experienced this with dogs and horses. I am scared of ALL dogs; big, small, quiet, noisy, sleeping etc. The minute a dog/dogs spots me they start barking and behaving outrageous and aggressive toward me, i.e., because they sense my fear.
Horses on the other hand, I love them and they love me. They listen and obey me when I talk to them. Even if it's a strange horse I see for the first time. Interesting, I know... ;)
I did an initial calculation earlier assuming that you needed to be close to someone in order to be able to "read" them that suggested a remarkably high probability of such psychic feelings occurring, although that was almost literally back-of-the-envelope."
Animals have this ability, and why not mankind? I've experienced this with dogs and horses. I am scared of ALL dogs; big, small, quiet, noisy, sleeping etc. The minute a dog/dogs spots me they start barking and behaving outrageous and aggressive toward me, i.e., because they sense my fear.
Horses on the other hand, I love them and they love me. They listen and obey me when I talk to them. Even if it's a strange horse I see for the first time. Interesting, I know... ;)
I am taking you seriously - and more so now. My 'Oooo', was simply an expression of excitement! Your mention of a new form of energy really hit the spot, because that's exactly what I imagine is happening - except I don't think it's a 'new' form of energy - just a form of energy that is, as yet, unrecognised.
//Why does not everyone have this ability? //
Perhaps they do, but in varying degrees.
//-- Two why does only the brain as a whole detect it? //
What else would you expect to detect it? An uneasy feeling, or a feeling of elation surely emanates from the brain.
//-- Why do said feelings only appear to manifest themselves when no-one's looking?//
I wasn't aware they did. Do they?
//Why does not everyone have this ability? //
Perhaps they do, but in varying degrees.
//-- Two why does only the brain as a whole detect it? //
What else would you expect to detect it? An uneasy feeling, or a feeling of elation surely emanates from the brain.
//-- Why do said feelings only appear to manifest themselves when no-one's looking?//
I wasn't aware they did. Do they?
Do animals have it? Even that is doubtful -- if you fear dogs, you might release "fear pheromones", or otherwise act in a fearful manner. Emotions manifest themselves physically too.
* * * * * * * * *
In answer to your replies, Naomi:
"//Why does not everyone have this ability? //
Perhaps they do, but in varying degrees."
Perhaps they do indeed. I certainly haven't, yet.
"//-- Two why does only the brain as a whole detect it? //
What else would you expect to detect it? An uneasy feeling, or a feeling of elation surely emanates from the brain."
I suppose I'm more thinking that it's unusual for any new interaction to only appear between large bodies. The trend in Science has been towards explaining things in terms of the small.
"//-- Why do said feelings only appear to manifest themselves when no-one's looking?//
I wasn't aware they did. Do they?"
My question was a reference to the fact that so far all attempts to test this in experiment have fallen short -- so that so far it does appear that psychic abilities are never seen if looked for.
By the way "new" means the same thing as "as yet unrecognised", ie "new to Science".
* * * * * * * * *
In answer to your replies, Naomi:
"//Why does not everyone have this ability? //
Perhaps they do, but in varying degrees."
Perhaps they do indeed. I certainly haven't, yet.
"//-- Two why does only the brain as a whole detect it? //
What else would you expect to detect it? An uneasy feeling, or a feeling of elation surely emanates from the brain."
I suppose I'm more thinking that it's unusual for any new interaction to only appear between large bodies. The trend in Science has been towards explaining things in terms of the small.
"//-- Why do said feelings only appear to manifest themselves when no-one's looking?//
I wasn't aware they did. Do they?"
My question was a reference to the fact that so far all attempts to test this in experiment have fallen short -- so that so far it does appear that psychic abilities are never seen if looked for.
By the way "new" means the same thing as "as yet unrecognised", ie "new to Science".
Jim, //I certainly haven't, yet.//
You said you’ve experienced feelings of déjà vu – but discounted them.
All attempts have fallen short because the phenomena is random and spontaneous. It can’t be conjured up to order.
I know what ‘new’ means, but I prefer ‘unrecognised’ because that’s what it is. It isn’t ‘new’.
You said you’ve experienced feelings of déjà vu – but discounted them.
All attempts have fallen short because the phenomena is random and spontaneous. It can’t be conjured up to order.
I know what ‘new’ means, but I prefer ‘unrecognised’ because that’s what it is. It isn’t ‘new’.
It's a standard usage of "new" in scientific literature. "A new theory etc.". The energy would be new to us.
Yes, I have, and yes, I did discount them because they're vague sensations. Far more easily discountable than real. We're talking "I've been in this situation before" and nothing more than that. Even assuming them to be genuine they're far less convincing than, say, Mrs. O's story earlier.
Yes, I have, and yes, I did discount them because they're vague sensations. Far more easily discountable than real. We're talking "I've been in this situation before" and nothing more than that. Even assuming them to be genuine they're far less convincing than, say, Mrs. O's story earlier.
Jim, //It's a standard usage of "new" in scientific literature. "A new theory etc.". The energy would be new to us.//
Please ..... I know. I've already said I'm not a stranger to science.
As I said perhaps people do experience these things, but in varying degrees, which could explain why your impressions were vague.
Please ..... I know. I've already said I'm not a stranger to science.
As I said perhaps people do experience these things, but in varying degrees, which could explain why your impressions were vague.
-- Why does not everyone have this ability?
How do we know everyone does not possess this ability? Suppress something and it'll stay dormant or down. You stroke it and what happens - it becomes ignited and alive. I believe if one is not too lazy and has the patients to explore their mind they would be able to uncover or develop this talent or ability.
-- Two why does only the brain as a whole detect it?
Which other body-part would you suggest detect this ability? The brain is the body's mechanism of controlling, detecting, signalling.
-- Why do said feelings only appear to manifest themselves when no-one's looking?
Some people look but fail to see, or they fail to hear.
Look at autistic children - they excel in arts and mathematics. They have their very own special ways of 'solving' problems. Why so? There's so much about life and the human body we yet to learn.
How do we know everyone does not possess this ability? Suppress something and it'll stay dormant or down. You stroke it and what happens - it becomes ignited and alive. I believe if one is not too lazy and has the patients to explore their mind they would be able to uncover or develop this talent or ability.
-- Two why does only the brain as a whole detect it?
Which other body-part would you suggest detect this ability? The brain is the body's mechanism of controlling, detecting, signalling.
-- Why do said feelings only appear to manifest themselves when no-one's looking?
Some people look but fail to see, or they fail to hear.
Look at autistic children - they excel in arts and mathematics. They have their very own special ways of 'solving' problems. Why so? There's so much about life and the human body we yet to learn.
"Some people look but fail to see..." Ironically this is my point too.
I don't think I've been suppressing anything, indeed I wish I could suppress more sometimes. So that's why I'm sceptical that only some people should have this ability -- my mind is in control of me and not really the other way round, so if I were psychic I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
"Why does only the brain as a whole detect it?" was too vague, I suppose. I really meant something closer to:
"Given that the brain is just another arrangement of fundamental matter, what is so special about this arrangement?"
Anyway, I really shouldn't be spending so much time here right now, I'm supposed to be either revising or buying dinner.
I don't think I've been suppressing anything, indeed I wish I could suppress more sometimes. So that's why I'm sceptical that only some people should have this ability -- my mind is in control of me and not really the other way round, so if I were psychic I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
"Why does only the brain as a whole detect it?" was too vague, I suppose. I really meant something closer to:
"Given that the brain is just another arrangement of fundamental matter, what is so special about this arrangement?"
Anyway, I really shouldn't be spending so much time here right now, I'm supposed to be either revising or buying dinner.
Apparently there is a parapsychology research centre where I'm heading this September. I might as well wait to talk to them before setting off on my own into this.
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An aside: I can't help but notice, Naomi, that when I try to keep an open mind about religion, you often disagree with me for doing so, and when I try to argue against (so far only two) what might be termed pseudo-scientific ideas, you disagree with me then.
Why should I have an open mind about psychic abilities, or directed panspermia/ aliens influencing early human society in some way and not religion? Or, perhaps, what are your own criteria for deciding whether or not to take a claim seriously
Why should I have an open mind about psychic abilities, or directed panspermia/ aliens influencing early human society in some way and not religion? Or, perhaps, what are your own criteria for deciding whether or not to take a claim seriously
Jim, You do come across as an apologist for religion, but that said, any intelligent, rational human being who has studied religion honestly and without pre-conceived ideas, as I have, cannot possibly maintain an open mind. The facts are there and they simply do not gel.
I don’t remember what the two instances are you mention, but you can rest assured that what I said is what I meant. I don’t lie, I don’t intend to be awkward, I don’t disagree with anyone just for the sake of it – and if I’m wrong, I have no hesitation in acknowledging that I am wrong.
//Why should I have an open mind about psychic abilities, or directed panspermia/ aliens influencing early human society in some way and not religion?//
I don’t like the term ‘psychic abilities’ – that smacks of special powers, effort, and moreover, the very hocus pocus and showbiz that we all condemn. What we’re talking about here appears to manifest randomly and spontaneously - it requires no conscious effort whatsoever – and whilst anecdotal evidence isn’t ideal, there is such an abundance of it, I really don’t think it should be ignored.
Science is quite aware than panspermia is feasible – Carl Sagan thought it a possible explanation - and there is a plethora of evidence – you’ll find some in the bible - to suggest that technologically superior beings - perceived by the unlearned people of earth to be gods - may have visited earth in the dim and distant past. However, without examining the evidence, all of that is generally ignored because those who think they know dismiss it without consideration. Religion, on the other hand provides stories and myths, but nothing else. It cannot provide one shred of evidence in support of its claims – and believe me, I’ve looked. You see, scientists aren’t the only people to require evidence.
I don’t remember what the two instances are you mention, but you can rest assured that what I said is what I meant. I don’t lie, I don’t intend to be awkward, I don’t disagree with anyone just for the sake of it – and if I’m wrong, I have no hesitation in acknowledging that I am wrong.
//Why should I have an open mind about psychic abilities, or directed panspermia/ aliens influencing early human society in some way and not religion?//
I don’t like the term ‘psychic abilities’ – that smacks of special powers, effort, and moreover, the very hocus pocus and showbiz that we all condemn. What we’re talking about here appears to manifest randomly and spontaneously - it requires no conscious effort whatsoever – and whilst anecdotal evidence isn’t ideal, there is such an abundance of it, I really don’t think it should be ignored.
Science is quite aware than panspermia is feasible – Carl Sagan thought it a possible explanation - and there is a plethora of evidence – you’ll find some in the bible - to suggest that technologically superior beings - perceived by the unlearned people of earth to be gods - may have visited earth in the dim and distant past. However, without examining the evidence, all of that is generally ignored because those who think they know dismiss it without consideration. Religion, on the other hand provides stories and myths, but nothing else. It cannot provide one shred of evidence in support of its claims – and believe me, I’ve looked. You see, scientists aren’t the only people to require evidence.
We can debate religion elsewhere, and you've seen that for the most part I'm just trying to justify my walking away from it anyway and test my footing as I go. We've had the panspermia debate too, so I'll leave that to one side.
I suppose part of my point through the thread is that the anecdotal evidence hasn't been ignored, not entirely, but has instead been subjected to rigorous examination. I've tried towards the end not to ignore it myself. However, in the same time that our understanding of Physics has gone from the scale of above atoms to the scale of quarks -- about 10 orders of magnitude "smaller" -- the progress made on trying to understand parapsychology has been negligible. As I see it, this is not a good thing. When I was younger I remember reading a book called something like "Strange Stories, amazing facts" which was full of incidents of the paranormal, including a discussion of Nostradamus and other effected "unexplained by Science", and I was wowed at the time and freaked out. Most of what it describes has since been explained or otherwise shown to be misunderstood at the time. The world is becoming less mystical.
From now on I'll call it parapsychology -- I was using "psychic abilities" for want of a better term at the time. If I get an opportunity to talk to those in the centre I mentioned earlier I'll try to take it anyway, it may be interesting.
I suppose part of my point through the thread is that the anecdotal evidence hasn't been ignored, not entirely, but has instead been subjected to rigorous examination. I've tried towards the end not to ignore it myself. However, in the same time that our understanding of Physics has gone from the scale of above atoms to the scale of quarks -- about 10 orders of magnitude "smaller" -- the progress made on trying to understand parapsychology has been negligible. As I see it, this is not a good thing. When I was younger I remember reading a book called something like "Strange Stories, amazing facts" which was full of incidents of the paranormal, including a discussion of Nostradamus and other effected "unexplained by Science", and I was wowed at the time and freaked out. Most of what it describes has since been explained or otherwise shown to be misunderstood at the time. The world is becoming less mystical.
From now on I'll call it parapsychology -- I was using "psychic abilities" for want of a better term at the time. If I get an opportunity to talk to those in the centre I mentioned earlier I'll try to take it anyway, it may be interesting.
I've only just skipped through this thread (well there are 217 posts) it seems to be logical positivism [LP] v. mysticism [M]. Some tomfool representing the former seems to have said "Given that the brain is just another arrangement of fundamental matter, what is so special about this arrangement?" Ye Gods! The brain is the most extraordinary and astonishing object in the universe.
Without using LP or M, will someone care to explain how a bird can build a nest or a spider construct a web without ever having seen it done before?
The chief obstacle we have in trying to understand the brain, is that we have no finer instrument than the brain itself for the purpose. There is no greater hindrance to objective knowledge than our own subjective presence.
The brain is, and we are;
"Like a sword that cuts but cannot cut itself;
Like an eye that sees but cannot see itself." .... Zenrin Kushu.
Without using LP or M, will someone care to explain how a bird can build a nest or a spider construct a web without ever having seen it done before?
The chief obstacle we have in trying to understand the brain, is that we have no finer instrument than the brain itself for the purpose. There is no greater hindrance to objective knowledge than our own subjective presence.
The brain is, and we are;
"Like a sword that cuts but cannot cut itself;
Like an eye that sees but cannot see itself." .... Zenrin Kushu.
