Is there a god?

[LeedsRhinos]

Is there a god? I mean look at all the different relgions around the world who all believe that THEY are right & the others are wrong. They can't all be right can they. Which is why in my opion it all rubbish.

[Merlin]

And on a lighter note - while researching for the previous posting, I came across the Hebrew word nakah (meaning to smite - as in kill a man).

And David nakah 'ed Goliath.

Is this the origin of the term to "knacker"? Because David most certainly knackered Goliath and the words are too similar not to be connected.

[turnal]

if you have no faith which none of you seem to have then whats the point of living if you cant believe you wont recieve

[el duerino]

yet another rock solid argument.

are there actually any theists willing to hang around and have a proper discourse regarding their beliefs because at the moment it feels like some sunday school has signed up all their members and told them to post. Yes turnal, you sound that stupid.

[Cmack88]

well said el d! bloody theists who needs em

[gazgibbs]

Yes! Of course there is. If really think about it our soul knows that He is real, but 'our fall from grace' convinces us that He doesn't, and it is ultimately easier to live your life the way you want to than to commit yourself to serving God's Kingdom. But until you have asked Jesus with all your heart to make himself real in your life, you will not know the truth and meaning of having a close personal relationship with the real Christ. And I am assuming that if you don't believe in Him you don't celebrate Christmas, Easter (His crucifiction and resurection - the egg symbolising new life - where the fluffy bunnies come from God only knows!) or marriage (sanctified by God - God's blessings, His idea in fact! etc.). Christianity is the only faith where all the actions involved in you spending eternity in Heaven were performed by God through the sacrifice of His Son on the cross. All that is left down to us is to believe. And I have to say I would rather live my life with a faith in Jesus and ultimately be wrong (which I'm not) than live my life without any real purpose and then find myself one day standing before the almighty Creator of the Universe. GULP!  I'd like to see you tell Him then that you don't believe in Him. Simply because you don't believe in God doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

[Merlin]

Gazgibbs

I don't really understand some of what you've posted but it does sound like you' re repeating the mantras that were drilled into you as a child. Anyway - just how did God "sacrifice" his son on the cross? For one thing, Jesus was/is God and for another thing, Jesus now sits at God's right hand - God has him(self) back!!. Where's the sacrifice in that? - Just what did God sacrifice and lose in the whole Easter event?

And where does faith come from - where did you get yours?

[Merlin]

And further to that, Gazgibbs, I just have to say it to save El D ranting about it and getting himself banned: Just because you believe in God, it doesn't mean that he does exist!.

Unfortunately, a lot of what you have posted is so grammatically incorrect that I'm not sure what it is that you're saying.

It would be nice to entertain a theist willing to debate, but we need to see an intelligible proposition (about soul, resurrection, eternal life hereafter, the fall and forgiveness, the nature of God etc etc.)

[Merlin]

Oh, and another thing, what do you mean by "Christianity is the only faith where all the actions involved in you spending eternity in Heaven were performed by God through the sacrifice of His Son on the cross."?

[Merlin]

TURNAL

"if you cant believe you wont recieve" - that's a catchy one, isn't it? What does it mean? If I can't believe because my reason won't let me, then I'm damned never to receive the gift of faith from God - Is that it? So that means that all I have to do is go against reason, say that I believe, and then I'll have faith and then I'll be saved? Am I on the right lines here?

And in what, pray tell, should I have faith?

[slimfandango]

Of course, you need to define 'God' before you begin the debate, but taking that 'God' which we have received down the line from millenia of human history, ie the 'God' who:-is the explanation for the 'design' we see around us-is the ultimate 'cause' of the Universe-is the great determiner of our lives: then absolutely not, of course this being does not exist. We not only have evidence to support this, but most importantly we have knowledge of why those who believed in this being did so, and why we can now show it to be wrong.

To clarify why I think they were wrong:

(-is the explanation for the 'design' we see around us)

We now know that beings that compete for survival in difficult environments will improve with each generation, resulting in the highly complex, tuned beings we see today
(-is the ultimate 'cause' of the Universe). It's not just that we realise we got a couple of minor points wrong here...we know now that up until 1920!!! our entire view of how "STUFF WAS" e.g. the very small (electrons etc), the very big (the universe), determinism, probability, chance, outcome, time/space etc WERE TOTALLY WRONG! It irritates me beyond belief to see people talk about the great 'Science v Religion' debate. Science is the starting point of religion and always has been. The moment you develop any opinion in your head about how the world works around you you are 'doing science', and this is always the starting point for religious belief.
(-is the great determiner of our lives). Ie, the one who determines what happens to us at any given moment, and the ultimate outcome of our lives. BS. Where is the evidence for this? http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

Paul

[Merlin]

Slimfandango

Welcome to this thread. Have you met El Duerino? -  he's from the pyscho wing of the atheist movement. He says more or less what we say but uses mortars and grenades and, I would imagine, a bare-teethed grimace while he says it. I agree. I always ask - and have done in this and other threads - for a description of God as understood by whomever claims that there is one. I have never yet been given a coherent description free from internal contradictions. This does not prove that God does not exist, but it does prove that "God as understood by whomever" cannot exist, or rather that the nature of God cannot be as described. (See the thread on How can God get angry). Strangely, I find that members of God's team disappear from these threads when the hard questions are asked.

Maybe it's just me.

[Clanad]

It's just you... no offense...

[WaddyaThink]

And people wonder why there are so many wars around the world based upon religion. You only have to look at the debate that has evolved from the simple words "is there a god" to find out. Religion has earned such a bad reputation due to the rantings,ravings and violence of a minority that it isnt possible to state that there is a god without coming under disrepute.

[WaddyaThink]

And people wonder why there are so many wars around the world based upon religion. You only have to look at the debate that has evolved from the simple words "is there a god" to find out. Religion has earned such a bad reputation due to the rantings,ravings and violence of a minority that it isnt possible to state that there is a god without coming under disrepute.

[WaddyaThink]

And people wonder why there are so many wars around the world based upon religion. You only have to look at the debate that has evolved from the simple words "is there a god" to find out. Religion has earned such a bad reputation due to the rantings,ravings and violence of a minority that it isnt possible to state that there is a god without coming under disrepute. Here

[Cobalt272]

have a look at the human body. look at how complex it is...there is a system of blood circulation, and immune system, a brain that controls pretty much the whole body and can feel emotion etc the human body is about as complex as it gets, and in my opinion there is no chance that this could have been created by a big explosion or evolution or anything like that. there has to be a God with intelligence and wisdom far greater than us. imagine a big explosion and suddenly a city of skyscrapers with working water systems, transport systems, electricity systems, commercial places and residential places that all work together in unison. thats how complex the human body is, and indeed any animal alive...or plant...or the world itself. now to consider evolution. yes i agree that animals can evolve to adapt to their environment, such as growing bigger or developing camouflage capabilities. however i believe it is impossible for new body parts to be evolved. don't tell me that the human race evolved lungs or a liver. the human body must have started with all the body's organs and parts as they all work together in unison. without a heart for example we would be dead. this leads me to believe there must have been a God that created the world, the sun, the creatures within them and the human race. we weren't created by some freak chance and we are definately not evolved from monkeys...

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink

I don't think any less of the masses of religious folk just because of the mindless minority any more than I think better of the masses of football hooligans just because of the sensible minority. I would question whether there have been that many wars based on religion with no other agenda. Some of my best friends and family are religious and I don't regard them as disreputable (well, not all of them anyway :-)). What I question is what people understand God to be. And you don't have to have God in a religion. Possibly you don't have to have a religion to believe that there is a 'God'?

[Merlin]

Clanad

OK - it's just me. I can understand that. Maybe I'll just go and fit my extractor fan between viewings of Zulu and leave you all in peace. :-)

[Merlin]

Cobalt272
Design (1) Ooooh � you�ve just caught me in so I�ll bang this out and go. The human body is as complex as it is as the result of evolution. I agree that that it could not have been created as it is by the big bang. But nor was it created in its present form. A common error when invoking the argument from design is to say �look at how things are now � there is so much design that there must have been a designer�. But things were not created in their current forms. Immediately after creation, there was very little indication of design in the cosmos � nothing intricate, nothing with apparent design and nothing that you could point to (had you been there) as evidence of a designer.
First life was also so simple that there was no evidence of design. Single-celled organisms without a heart (no circulation, no heart needed) and without lungs and without blood. No major organs nor limbs but life nonetheless. And I would tend to agree that humans probably did not develop organs such as lungs, heart, liver etc � they had been developed in earlier organisms -  in man�s ancestors. Your analogy with civilized settlements is a useful one. Started with caves � so simple � evolved from there very gradually into the metropolises (is that a word?) that we have today. Where it fails as an anlogy, though, is that human settlements are designed (to some extent) whereas humans are not (although they are beginning to be these days � but my man, not God).

[Merlin]

Design (2). A belief in God does not preclude an acceptance of evolution � you can claim that God designed evolution to develop from amoeba to humans. Et voila � God and Darwin in perfect harmony. I thought that the major school embraced evolution these days as God�s design and that there was no longer a conflict there?. And you are probably right in saying that we did not evolve from monkeys � we came up a different route (I think). And I agree that we were not created by a freak chance � we came about as the result of a long series of accidental and unnecessary events.

Whhooaaaaaaaaaaa � hold up there!!!! � You�re not Clanad using a different pseudonym are you? If so � and even if not so � this is a response to argument from design, not the start of a sub-thread on evolution!!

Sorry for all the typos, but I'm starving for my dinner and want to go now.

Cheers