Is there a god?

[LeedsRhinos]

Is there a god? I mean look at all the different relgions around the world who all believe that THEY are right & the others are wrong. They can't all be right can they. Which is why in my opion it all rubbish.

[mahatheone]

is there any chance that a  human made himself from scratch, i mean start from NOTHING? is it possibe? of course there is someone responsible, or how did all of this creatures come from? someone would say that we could in the future build a human or creat but to start from nothing! i doubt it, clones for example would makes us createors, but i think that cloning is like a building we make, i won't call this as a creation.

Whose ever responsible is the one i call God. and i believe that He is the one that holly books talked about, simply because He's the only one who stated that he is God! and no one else denied it ( in addition to humans). what is more that we need to beileve  than a confeesing of it. that will make us expel gods we made except the 3 major religions, which is not our subject now.

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink (1) My atheist view is entirely rational and I am quite happy to explain the rationale. Imagine you and I having a question and answer session:
Me: It seems to me that it is quite rational to believe that genesis and evolution occurred due entirely to natural causes. The creation of this universe also, in my view, occurred quite naturally due to some laws of physics that we do not yet understand. My view of life, the universe and everything is coherent, it answers all the questions that I have and all the pieces fit together very nicely thank you very much.
You: No, you are wrong, that is not how the universe was created and that is not how life started
Me: What was the cause of creation of the universe and life etc?
You: �God� was the cause.
Me: What is �God�
You: (Effectively) �I don�t know�.
Me: My view is more complete and coherent than your view, therefore my view is more rational than yours.  You cannot supplant my understanding of the causes with your understanding of the causes if you cannot say what your understanding is.
As I have said before, it makes it easier to understand if we change the words:
Me: Look at that crack in the pavement, I think that came about due to a weak mix of concrete and a truck parking on it.
You: Nothing so mundane, old chap, I know that billybob did it.
Me: Billybob? � What�s billybob?
You: Well, Billybob is a short  man who is over 6 feet tall. He is very heavy for someone who weighs less than four pounds. And he is always consistent in his behaviour except when he isn�t.
Me: If you don�t mind, I�ll stay with my original thought. But if you ever get a description of Billybob that isn�t so ridiculous, please get back to me and I�ll think about it again.

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink (2) Your belief  in God goes back to whenever you were convinced that God exists � maybe to when you were between 2 and 5 years old. The future of your belief is finite, as you are yourself.
You may arguably be right that the theory of evolution ends when every human being has been wiped off the face of the planet � it�s an interesting question you pose: does a theory exist if there is no-one to think about it; does a theory still exist if it is written in a book that no-one reads?. The theory may die out with the last intelligent creature, but evolution itself will continue whether there is anyone to expound the theory or not. The ultimately supreme creature after man�s demise may well be the cockroach � it has been proposed as a likely candidate. At a guess, I would vote for viruses or bacteria.
You may be surprised to learn that I do think that there is an aspect to the human person that I would happily label as the �soul�. It may surprise you even more that my description of it may equate quite closely to what you consider the soul to be, but my version does not include anything eternal or God-given.
Whether a phenomenon is sad is both subjective and academic � it has no bearing whatsoever on the actuality of it. Did you have a pet when you were younger (maybe you�re not that old?) � were you sad when that pet died? (I am assuming that you believe that humans have a soul but animals do not � do you think that humans are not also animals?) Anyway, it is sad that loved pets die (Why do we form emotional attachments to the lower species � now that is another interesting one!), but they do die, nonetheless, as sad as it is. It is a sad thing that babies are born with fatal deformities, but it is a fact nonetheless.  Natural genesis and evolution may not make your heart beat faster, but that is no reason to discount them.

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink (3) The �point� between before the big bang and human beings as they are now. Hmmmmmmm. That�s a mighty big �point� of several million years. First there was the creation of the universe. I say �first�, because there is the theoretical/philosophical possibility that there was something before the event of this universe coming into being. We don�t know for sure what caused the universe, but if you propose that God created it, then the onus is upon you to describe God. Science can describe the big bang in coherent terms and that makes the sad science more rational than the exciting God explanation. What happened before the big bang? Who knows � once the mystery of the (last?) big bang has been clarified, we may get some indication of what happened before it. We cannot claim to know for sure that the big bang occurred but there is substantial evidence for it and no evidence against it (that I am aware of), so it is rational to go along with it for now.
And you are SOOO WRONG to suppose that in order to believe evolution, you have to believe that God does not exist and so the earth was formed in some other manner. Consider this� and it is, I think, a fairly common view with people who believe in God: God created the universe by causing the big bang. He designed the big bang so that the right conditions would prevail on this planet for life to start here. His design of the big bang is what caused life to start. His design for genesis of life included the design for evolution. God�s design of evolution is what led to the advent of man. God created everything, including the big bang, the universe, genesis, evolution and man. I don�t subscribe to that theory, of course, but you can believe in the big bang, genesis, evolution and God all together.

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink (4) You ask me �Why do you think it is wrong to end another mans life?� � where did that come from � why do you suppose that I do think it is wrong? �Morality� is a subjective term, a concept invented by man. There are, however, �rules� of existence that do fall within the remit of evolution, natural selection, adaptation etc. They are the rules that promote survival of individuals and species. Man�s consciousness, self-awarenes, intellectual ability etc has developed to such a degree that he can formulate concepts such as morality, good and bad, justice, government etc. Not everything, I suppose, is the direct result of mutations and natural selection � we now have man�s philosophical attitudes to take into account. 
I don�t understand your comment about the �dog eat dog approach�. Your question about �Why do people feel good when they listen to music that inspires them?� is an interesting one, but you would have to expand on that a bit � what does �inspire� mean, is everyone inspired by music, different music may or may not inspire some people or other people to do good or bad things or nothing. But why does my spine tingle when Artie Shaw�s band changes from a major to a minor (or the other way round) or when Bach�s Toccata and Fugue in D starts? � Why indeed?

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink (5) Love is more than simply a coarse animal attraction between humans that is brought about by the need to reproduce. A mother�s love for her children is necessary to prevent unnecessary infant mortality, for instance. A bother�s love for his sister is useful in ensuring that a family�s genes are passed on.  And there are so many varieties of �love� that that question is too simplistic. It is probably possible to be completely reductionist about love and identify a �survival� inspiration for every variety, but what�s the point of that? If a man told his wife that he loved her because he was driven to it by a basic instinct to assist with the survival of our species, I suspect that he would not actually survive for much longer!!
And you oversimplify the matter and endow it with your personal opinion when you say �nothing more than a mutation�. Why not marvel in awe at the staggering thought that all this has come about as the result of a chain of accidents � isn�t nature simply stupendous and utterly amazing!!!!
What makes one person so different from the next, apart from their outward appearance, is their inner character, their parents, their education, their environment, their experiences, their friends, their language etc etc etc.-everything that goes to make their soul the way it is.

A challenging posting, WaddyaThink. Let�s have some more.

[Merlin]

WaddyaThink (5) Love is more than simply a coarse animal attraction between humans that is brought about by the need to reproduce. A mother�s love for her children is necessary to prevent unnecessary infant mortality, for instance. A bother�s love for his sister is useful in ensuring that a family�s genes are passed on.  And there are so many varieties of �love� that that question is too simplistic. It is probably possible to be completely reductionist about love and identify a �survival� inspiration for every variety, but what�s the point of that? If a man told his wife that he loved her because he was driven to it by a basic instinct to assist with the survival of our species, I suspect that he would not actually survive for much longer!!
And you oversimplify the matter and endow it with your personal opinion when you say �nothing more than a mutation�. Why not marvel in awe at the staggering thought that all this has come about as the result of a chain of accidents � isn�t nature simply stupendous and utterly amazing!!!!
What makes one person so different from the next, apart from their outward appearance, is their inner character, their parents, their education, their environment, their experiences, their friends, their language etc etc etc.-everything that goes to make their soul the way it is.
A challenging posting, WaddyaThink. Let�s have some more.

[Saint Nick]

I believe that there is an energy greater then the physical world that we experience. Whether you can put this to a divine creator or supreme being I just don't know. there is something else out there, but what this something is is anybody's guess

Saint Nick

 

[slimfandango]

Not sure that you rose to the challenge though

[Merlin]

Go on then, what did I miss?

[iam_natiola]

I believe there is! look at it this way, there are so many countries and so many languages that exists in this planet, and mind you all of them also believe that they are right and more powerful and more accurate than the others...can we consider them also as rubbish?

[bobbyx]

WaddyaThink

Regarding one of your previous posts:

Morality
As a rule, animals tend not to kill their own species. There is however in human nature, a desire to protect one's own (family - which over time has evolved into more eg. home, land and even racial identity) and I can say with all honesty that, under extreme circumstances, that I would kill to protect my family. Each individual may have a different set of morals but there tends to be a commonality between people in a particular area or country, and this commonality of opinion turns into our laws and justice system.

Look at other countries and you will see vast differences in 'morals'; for example, I was watching a documentary on BBC1 this week about Taiwan, which pointed out that the native mountain dwelling tribes, until about sixty years ago, beheaded strangers / intruders of their villages and played a game whereby they tossed the severed head into the air and caught it on a spear - No doubt these people were influenced by the moral majority!

For centuries the organised religions like the RC & the CofE dictated what these morals should be, and a couple of hundred years-ago, I would have probably been burned alive for expressing my non-belief in God or LBJ! So, I presume you belive that your god instilled this moral on his loyal followers!

[bobbyx]

WaddyaThink

Continued:

Merlin has already covered 'love', and as for music well that's easy:
The natural rhythm of our hearts (and our mothers' hearts while we're in the womb) have a profound influence on the music we enjoy - most popular music is built around a 4:4 or similar time signature, inspirational key changes could be reactions to similar sounds, sub-conciously remembered from within the womb, or early chilhood. Now, I'm no expert on this subject so I'm sure someone who's a musician (or who's done any research on the subject) could explain the theory much better!

What is most telling about your post though,is when you say:

"If i am foolhardy for believing that i was created by a higher being that bestowed upon me all of the characteristics and personality traits that i possess, than i would rather be foolhardy than the result of an accident."

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but You might as well replace 'foolhardy' with 'ignorant' as this demonstrates that your belief is based on a preference i.e. you are more comfortable with your faith than the notion of being alone / not specifically created. It is this unwillingness to accept the not very nice 'truth' that we're alone in the universe, and that  when we die we turn to dust -  that is the basis for many people to readily accept belief in God (or gods) without question.

[bobbyx]

When I said "No doubt these people were influenced by the moral majority!" about the Tiwanese tribe in my second-to-last post I meant: "No doubt these people were influenced (to stop this practice) by the moral majority! "

[heinsyteinc]

There is a God, and you are right He has many name. As many cultures serve their God, what is important the only thing that is important to Him is that one beleives in His Son Jesus Christ. There is only one man that backs a "religious name" if you will, that came to earth, lived out His years, died and then resurrected. His name is Jesus. Our mission here on earth is not to gather what we can not take with us, but to spread the word of the Lord so His return will be soon. You say not all people of the world beleive in Jesus. The King James version tells us that "all are called not all will come." And for those of you who want to argue the point, ask any other religious group this. "Where is the God you serve now, and where is his, if he has one, the person who was sent in his place, or sent to help his people out or what is he doing now?" Their answer to one or the other will be DEAD.  What good is a dead God or a DEAD Holy man\women. Even the papacy makes sure they have a continual leadership, as worthless as it is. But other world relgions do not. There fore whether you beleive or not that there is a God, there is and He His Son is before the Throne of Heaven praying for your life. The one that He came down to save. Yes I am a die hard Christian.Thank you for your time. Oh and my question to you would be Prove there is not a God.

[Meme1]

Suppose you found a watch in the middle of the desert. What would you conclude? Would you think someone had dropped the watch? or would you suppose that the watch came by itself?

Of course, no sane person would say the watch just happened to emerge from the sand. All the intricate working parts could not simply develop from the metals that lay burried in the earth. The watch must have a manufacturer.

If a watch tells an accurate time, we expect the manufacturer must be intelliegnt. Blind chance cannot produce a working watch.

But waht else tells accurate time? Consider the sunrise and the sunset. Their timings are so strictly regulated that scientists can publish in advance the sunrise and the sunset times in your daily newspaper, but who regulated the timings of sunrise and sunset? If a watch cannot work without a maker, how can the sun appear to rise and set with such clockkwork regularity? Could this occur by itself??

Consider also that we benefit from the sun only because it remains at a safe distance from earth. A distance that averages 93 million miles. It it got much closer, the earth would burn up. And if it got too far away, the earth would turn into an icy planet making human life here impossible. Who decided in advance that this was the right distance? Could it just happen by chance??

Without the sun, plants would not grow. Then animals and humans would starve. Did the sun just decide to be there for us?...continued on a following post

[Meme1]

....continued

We need to experience sunrise. We need the sun's energy and its light to see our way during the day. But we also need sunset. We need a  break from the heat, we need the cool of the night and we need the lights to go out s we may sleep. Who regulated this process to provide us what we need?

Moreover, if we had only the warmth of the sun and the protection of the atmosphere, we would want something more- beauty. Our clothes provide warmth and protection, yet we design them to look beautiful, knowing our need for beatuy, the designer of the sunrise and the sunset also made the view of them to be simply breathtaking.

The creator who gave us light, energy, protection, and beauty deserves our thanks. Yet some people insist that he does not exist. What would they think if they found a watch in the desert? An accurate working watch? A beautifully designed watch? Would they not conclude that there does exist a watchmaker. One who appreciates beauty? Such God who made us.

Now...God exist.. work hard to find the true religion...Ask God- your creator- from a true believing hart to guide you to the right path...you will soon find the answer for yourself.

[bobbyx]

Meme1:

Try thinking for yourself, instead of spouting the usual rhetoric! - I've heard the 'watch' story many times before.

If I found a watch in the desert, I would logically assume that another human had lost it, or thrown it away, knowing as I do, that the watch is a man-made invention (the first wrist-watch having been invented by Cartier), and without going off on a tangent about the notion of time as a abstract theory, Watches follow from other man-made devices for measuring day and night, e.g. Sun-dial, egg-timer etc.Your first two paragraphs don't dispute this, but you seem to have forgotten that humans invented time-pieces to mimic the sunrises, sunsets and lunar cycles - it's not a coincidence! Also to compare the Earth to a man-made item is a trite way to try to make your subject belive that the Earth must have a creator too.

Now, for the remainder of your two posts, most of the points I can easily agree with, however the assumptions you make, I cannot. You assume that the conditions on earth were created for us, when really, we evolved BECAUSE of the conditions! - And if your statement is to be belived, then you and I are ok in our cosy houses (or workplace!) typing on our computers, but what about the millions of people in the less habitible places on Earth, they seemed to get a raw deal - Might your creator be a little bit racist?

[Bourney]

If you really want to know if there is a god I recoment you read God's Debris: A Thought Experiment. Its by Scott Adams, the same guy who wrote Dilbert. It wont prove it wither way, but it will make your head spin.