Today's Britain?

[B00]

Or just pictures of today's youth doing what they've done for generations, going out getting bombed at weekends, but this time it's captured in all its glory?

http://www.dailymail....n-laughing-stock.html

[Sqad]

Sorry...the first description should have said..."in the 60's.

[tamborine]

the cops dont have batons out to conduct an orchestra sqad - blame the cops for the casualties; there's the evidence

[pa___ul3]

I still don't think it's right, that lass getting her leg signed is clearly aware of what she's doing (at least at the time).
Especially with this being a paper that likes to take the moral high ground, you can't just go doing things like that!

[jake-the-peg]

I was in A&E in Oxford overnight on a Friday a few months back Sqad when my father had a stroke.

I don't recognise what you describe - I don't think I saw any obvious drunks it certainly was calm and ordered - the biggest issue was finding an appropriate ward bed he could go to.

When and where is your experience of this 'shifts from hell' ?

Are we talking London here?

[Sqad]

pa_ula.....it would appear that seeing woman's knickers on a night out is now no big deal.

Women's "hen nights" are allegedly more provocative ans sexually explicit than men's stag nights....so i am told.

Before i left the UK i could take you to a club in Preston where the ceiling was of glass and all the men underneath could see the presence or absence of the women's knickers.........so c'mon.......let's leave the high ground to the real puritans...;-)

[Gromit]

The Daily Mail specialise in 'Wardrobe Malfunction' shots, probably because it is edited by dirty old men.

http://www.google.co....8&hl=en&client=safari

[andy-hughes]

Here we go again.

The issue involved here is a generation who are made to believe that the only way to enjoy a night out is to drink as much alcohol as quickly as possible, in order to become insensible - with attendent violence, illness, etc etc.

The government's response to this malaise was to increase opening hours so that we could enjoy a 'cafe society' as they do in Europe.

The difference is Europeans drink alcohol because they enjoy a drink, usually with dinner, and this is a million miles away from the avowed intention of memory-erasing drunkenesss which is the aim of most weekend revellers.

So the concept was doomed to fail - as anyone with any insight knew - and the government, out of touch as they are, pressed through the legislation, and we finish up with these weekend sights in our streets.

Once again, we need to educate children that a night out does not revolve around as much alcolhol as quickly as possible, and that being 'trolleyed / hammered / blitzed / slaughtered ... and all the other silly phrases they use, are not a badge of adult behaviour to be prized and boasted over.

But while the government derives such massive revenues from the alcohol taxes, they will do little or nothing to address these issues - moeny is far more important than health and well-being, hence the reluctance of any government to address the issues in any meaningful way, with a view to changing sociial attitudes to alcohol.

[Sqad]

JTP....I am glad that you hit the A&E on a good moment which in my opinion is not characteristic.

My experience?
Casualty officer for 6 months Royal Sussex County in Brighton..Senior Casualty officer The Royal London Whitechapel....all in the early sixties.

My experience in the 90's and 20's gleaned from having lunch with my Juniors...not personal experience, but reliable.

That is my point...........the UK folks are in denial because in their experience it has "always been like that".................but it hasn't.

[pa___ul3]

no I know sqad, I've worked in strip bars and proper town centre bars, one which encouraged the grils to dance on the bar and I've seen the gussets of half the women in Birkenhead, but that's their choice. If the women go to a bar with a glass floor for the lads below to see, that's their choice. I'm just guessing this lass isn't lying on the floor with her tush on show for a bunch of lads to have a gawp at. It's like those photos of 'celebs' getting out of cars and the paps wait at such an angle to get a knicker shot. If they're flaunting it then go nuts, but not if they're (even seemingly) out cold!!

[Sqad]

pa__ula.........;-)....point taken.

andy.......well said.

[AB Editor]

"The difference is Europeans drink alcohol because they enjoy a drink, usually with dinner."

So refined they are on the continent!

When was the last time you went drinking with a bunch of Germans Andy? Or Poles? Or the Dutch? I've done so with groups here and in their homelands recently - I can certainly say drinking excessively isn't only a British passtime! The Poles are the worst for it, although I would suggest the Germans get "Louder".

I say this tongue in cheek of course; I know you're a militant anti-boozer! (Not that I actually disagree with your reasons for being so, they seem fairly well thought out and logical. My weaknesses find it worrying of course.)

[237SJ]

I agree Ed. Ever had a night out in Scandinavia/Sydney? Boozing it up in city centres is not confined to the UK and not everywhere in the UK is like Cardiff/Newcastle. My local area is Richmond which is very popular for a night out and I`ve never seen that sort of behaviour. You can`t lump a whole generation together because of a few boozy pictures in the Daily Hate.

[Sqad]

I didn't think that the OP suggested comparing other countries to the UK, but to the UK compared with yesteryear.

My advice to casualty officers is to try and get your post in Richmond ;-)

[237SJ]

Yes sqad, on their salaries they should be able to afford the astronomical property prices :-)

[andy-hughes]

AB Ed - I appreciate that Europeans have their fair share of boozy youngsters out getting hammered / blitzed ... oh i can't be bothered with the terminology!

The point is, these behaviours are not the majority in Europe as they are here.

Where in the Uk do you ever see people sitting out enjoying dinner and a drink and some conversation, the way you can in a lot of European cities?

The problem, apart from anything else, is simply the weather! The Costas can more or less guarentee months of warm evenings where people can enjoy sitting out, that was the major flaw in the 'cafe society' argument - it is not in our nature to sit out, becuase it is usually too cold and / or wet to enjoy it!

So although I agree that booze culture is not a purely British concept, i would argue that it is not as wide-spread and cultureally ingrained in Europ as it is here.

I would have the stuff banned tomorrow - so my chances of being Minster of Health, or the Chancellor are probably somewhat hampered by that viewpoint!

[pa___ul3]

andy, just a point from my personal experience, I've noticed a massive swing around where I live towards the 'trendy wine bar / cocktail bar' culture, whereby those who would have been the ones getting wellied before going on to a club are now drinking continental lagers or fancy cocktails while pouting, a hell of a lot of people are becoming far too obsessed with looking good to let themselves go enough to get in the state this rabble are in!
Of course that's not everywhere, city centres with a large student population will invariably always look like this but there does seem to be at least some shift in the culture.

[anotheoldgit]

Picture of today's youth

http://www.vault9.net...ottenham-riots-32.jpg

A few deck chairs Gromit, that's chicken feed.

http://img.allvoices....54-tottenham-riot.jpg

[237SJ]

Same where I live. There are plenty of wine bars and you do see people sitting out. All the restaurants in church street, twickenham put their tables outside on summer saturdays and there is very much a cafe society type culture (although I don`t see what sitting outside has to do with drinking anyway). At £5+ for a glass of wine nobody can afford to get trollied anyway. The problem is where you get cheap booze. If the prices went through the roof, there would be less of a problem.

[ummmm]

< If the prices went through the roof, there would be less of a problem.>

And also not fair on the ones who drink more sensibly.

[andy-hughes]

237SJ - in fact, sitting and drinking with a meal is very different from drinking to be drunk.

Such is the cynical exploitation of people by the drinks industry, that when the found from research that people actually drink more if they stand up, many bars get rid of tables and chairs, and replaced them with minimal seating, in order to increase sales.

This has led the the concept of the 'vertical' bar, where people stand to drink, and do consume more alcohol than if they were in a seated social occasion, as they used to be in pubs in generations past. this in turn has led to the wholesale colusre of the traditional 'local' - its purpose of social interaction and an accompanying drink has now been superceeded by a need to consume as much alcohol as quickly and cheaply as possible.

We have no choicce about having an alcohol-based social society - it is too deeply ingrained in sthe fabric of the nation to be changed.

But we do have a choice about how we approach our consumption, and as i have said, that is down to education about self-respect, enjoyment, and social interaction.