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This Will Be Interesting.
Last week seven members of a Telford group were jailed for up to 18 years instant custody with an additional eight-year period on licence after release.
Today an Oxfordshire child sex trafficking ring has been convicted.
Hopefully they will be suitably imprisoned.
Or will our justice sytstem once more show inconsistency in sentences?
Today an Oxfordshire child sex trafficking ring has been convicted.
Hopefully they will be suitably imprisoned.
Or will our justice sytstem once more show inconsistency in sentences?
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Apology accepted.
All events in History are important, since we are constantly told that "history repeats itself". I'm arguing that this is a consequence of two groups of humans meeting, and one forgetting or overlooking the other's humanity. That has happened before -- many times -- and may be what is happening here.
All events in History are important, since we are constantly told that "history repeats itself". I'm arguing that this is a consequence of two groups of humans meeting, and one forgetting or overlooking the other's humanity. That has happened before -- many times -- and may be what is happening here.
From wiki
/The Cantonment Act of 1864: regulated and structured prostitution in the British military bases. The structuring features of the Cantonment Acts provided for about twelve to fifteen Indian women for each regiment of British soldiers. These women were kept in brothels called chaklas.
Most of the women came from poor families and had no other opportunities for social or economic independence. The structural inequalities that pushed women into prostitution were often enforced by the colonial governments/
/The Cantonment Act of 1864: regulated and structured prostitution in the British military bases. The structuring features of the Cantonment Acts provided for about twelve to fifteen Indian women for each regiment of British soldiers. These women were kept in brothels called chaklas.
Most of the women came from poor families and had no other opportunities for social or economic independence. The structural inequalities that pushed women into prostitution were often enforced by the colonial governments/
Interesting parallel in Colonial India with today's disregard for white girls of a certain class by some Muslim men:
/Generally, Indian women were not seen as violated or as victims when they engaged in prostitution with British men, and one reason for this was that the British believed that Indian women were inherently sexual, so prostitution would not offend them./
/Generally, Indian women were not seen as violated or as victims when they engaged in prostitution with British men, and one reason for this was that the British believed that Indian women were inherently sexual, so prostitution would not offend them./
jim360
/// No, it should not exactly be forgotten if in doing so you forget that anyone and everyone can turn into an evil person if they forget that those in another society are people too. ///
That is an Utopian dream put by a civilised British person, slavery is still taking place, and will continue to do so, until such times as some of these uncivilised nations who still live in the Middle Ages join us in whatever age we find ourselves in when they finally catch us up.
/// No, it should not exactly be forgotten if in doing so you forget that anyone and everyone can turn into an evil person if they forget that those in another society are people too. ///
That is an Utopian dream put by a civilised British person, slavery is still taking place, and will continue to do so, until such times as some of these uncivilised nations who still live in the Middle Ages join us in whatever age we find ourselves in when they finally catch us up.
Of course it still is, sadly. What I am trying to say is that it is humans putting other humans into slavery. Not some separate sub-species. That would be to forget what we ourselves, or rather our ancestors, were capable of.
I'm not one of those "Empire apologists", exactly. I don't see the point in apologising for something that happened before I was born. I do see the point in knowing that is happened, that people not that different from us were involved... and that it will happen again.
I'm not one of those "Empire apologists", exactly. I don't see the point in apologising for something that happened before I was born. I do see the point in knowing that is happened, that people not that different from us were involved... and that it will happen again.
sir.prize, the convictions were for : 23 rapes,15 conspiracy to rape,9 arranging child prostitution,5 trafficking for sexual exploitation,4 sexual activity with a child.
Why do you suspect that our justice system will show inconsistency? What are you expecting these men to get, given that list of offences?
Why do you suspect that our justice system will show inconsistency? What are you expecting these men to get, given that list of offences?
/a 'softening' of sentences as often is the case in different parts of the country for 'similar' offences. /
Is there such a thing?
What is your evidence for that sir.prize (that isn't just anecdotal or newspaper distortions)?
I'm sure there must be official reviews of judge's compliance with sentencing guidelines. Has this 'softening' ever been identified as an issue in those reviews?
I've not noticed anything, perhaps you have a link to the facts...
Is there such a thing?
What is your evidence for that sir.prize (that isn't just anecdotal or newspaper distortions)?
I'm sure there must be official reviews of judge's compliance with sentencing guidelines. Has this 'softening' ever been identified as an issue in those reviews?
I've not noticed anything, perhaps you have a link to the facts...
Just checked; the Telford two were convicted as follows: Afidel Ali of 1 rape,3 of controlling child prostitution, 1 inciting child prostitution, 1 grooming for sexual activity. He got 18 years.
Mubarak : 4 of controlling child prostitution, 2 of trafficking, 1 of causing child prostitution. He got 14 years
On that basis, some of the Oxford ring must be looking at 18 years or more
Mubarak : 4 of controlling child prostitution, 2 of trafficking, 1 of causing child prostitution. He got 14 years
On that basis, some of the Oxford ring must be looking at 18 years or more
Zeuhl - you can be so argumentative at times. I do not need to provide links for every single statement that I make.
In my view the British judicial system does seem to fail quite often.
There are times we see a wrongdoer being handed a couple of hundred hours' community service. While a similar offence gains a prison sentence.
There well may be //. . . official reviews of judge's compliance with sentencing guidelines./// but often the reasons for the variance in sentences is hard to comprehend.
In my view the British judicial system does seem to fail quite often.
There are times we see a wrongdoer being handed a couple of hundred hours' community service. While a similar offence gains a prison sentence.
There well may be //. . . official reviews of judge's compliance with sentencing guidelines./// but often the reasons for the variance in sentences is hard to comprehend.
I just wanted to say, by the way. This case makes me angry. Oh, so angry! It's horrible and disgusting what these men did, what the put those girls through. I cannot understand how, or believe that, no-one noticed. People did notice, and yet ultimately nothing was done except turning a blind eye. This must not happen.
It is too late for this particular case to do anything other than ensure that these men are locked up for a very long time. It is important that we understand why they did it, and why they got away with it for so long, so that we can take better action in future.
It is too late for this particular case to do anything other than ensure that these men are locked up for a very long time. It is important that we understand why they did it, and why they got away with it for so long, so that we can take better action in future.
sir.prize, that difference in sentences are always going to be hard to comprehend without having a full transcript of the evidence and the reports on the offender and the previous convictions. The popular press invites us to be outraged without giving us that, of course, and without knowledge of it themselves
Very true jim. Unfortunately we are not in a position to do anything. It is up to THEM - being the authorities ho can prevent this kind of atrocity to be repeated. Although these groups seem to be just about everywhere in the UK right now.
It gives shivers to hear of it. And when you see their pictures in the press it is clear to see they are 'beasts'.
It gives shivers to hear of it. And when you see their pictures in the press it is clear to see they are 'beasts'.
Minimum sentences are almost unknown in English law,sir.prize, and with good reason. Drink-drive, for example, has a minimum ban, and certain firearms offences have a minimum sentence given the qualifying circumstances. Murder has one, life, but that is not life as generally understood and never has been.
Manslaughter has a life maximum and is a good example of why we have no statutory minimum. The cases vary so much in their gravity as manslaughter. We rely upon judges using their powers properly. In fact, for all offences in a given category of gravity there is a starting point, departed from only in exceptional cases.
Manslaughter has a life maximum and is a good example of why we have no statutory minimum. The cases vary so much in their gravity as manslaughter. We rely upon judges using their powers properly. In fact, for all offences in a given category of gravity there is a starting point, departed from only in exceptional cases.
Unfortunately we are not in a position to do anything.
It depends on how much of the problem was the police ignoring, or not investigating fully, the case; and on how much everyone involved turned a blind eye. A snippet in the times suggests that the Social workers caring for one young girl helped her to purchase "sexy lingerie and high heeled boots ... [she was] dressed like a 1950s prostitute".
There is a limit to what the public can do if they don't see the crime, or aren't aware of it. Too, the limit may be made worse if complaints are not followed up. It's the powerlessness that is almost equally depressing.
It depends on how much of the problem was the police ignoring, or not investigating fully, the case; and on how much everyone involved turned a blind eye. A snippet in the times suggests that the Social workers caring for one young girl helped her to purchase "sexy lingerie and high heeled boots ... [she was] dressed like a 1950s prostitute".
There is a limit to what the public can do if they don't see the crime, or aren't aware of it. Too, the limit may be made worse if complaints are not followed up. It's the powerlessness that is almost equally depressing.
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