ChatterBank0 min ago
What Happened In Leicester?
A young man named Antoin Akpom is stabbed and the following night a house is firebombed and a mother with her three children die in the blaze.
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The short answer to sandys OP is that we do not know yet what connection, if any, there is between the murder of the man in the street assault last week and this house burning. On the face of it, it does sound like a revenge attack that has, it would appear, gone wrong in targeting the wrong family.
Such a death is tragic and horrible and senseless.
I too was surprised at NJs quote, which does have a resonance with those obnoxious comments of people like Manning. I really do hope that was not what he meant. I had thought that this notion of "Britishness", or an individuals cultural link as being ethnically or genetically derived had been buried along with the BNP, who loved such a notion. Its a stupid and unscientific notion, and a highly offensive one at that.
"Revenge attacks" are not something you will see more closely linked to one type of ethnicity than others. The instances of revenge attacks amongst just our own, British culture are endless; SP has articulated some of the more high profile ones, but lets not forget a boyfriend who blows up a house in Oldham, killing a baby boy, in an effort to kill his girlfriend following a row. We could even include some lowlife like Dale Creggan who engineered the killing of 2 wpcs as a kind of sick form of a revenge attacks. And revenge attacks are common globally. So lets not keep trying to associate killings for revenge with particular cultures. It has more to do with low self esteem and low intelligence than any kind of ethnic link.
People are conflating what appears to have been a revenge attack gone wrong with "honour killings" - a sick and twisted practice that does have a cultural connection. But that's not really the issue here, at least on the face of it.
Such a death is tragic and horrible and senseless.
I too was surprised at NJs quote, which does have a resonance with those obnoxious comments of people like Manning. I really do hope that was not what he meant. I had thought that this notion of "Britishness", or an individuals cultural link as being ethnically or genetically derived had been buried along with the BNP, who loved such a notion. Its a stupid and unscientific notion, and a highly offensive one at that.
"Revenge attacks" are not something you will see more closely linked to one type of ethnicity than others. The instances of revenge attacks amongst just our own, British culture are endless; SP has articulated some of the more high profile ones, but lets not forget a boyfriend who blows up a house in Oldham, killing a baby boy, in an effort to kill his girlfriend following a row. We could even include some lowlife like Dale Creggan who engineered the killing of 2 wpcs as a kind of sick form of a revenge attacks. And revenge attacks are common globally. So lets not keep trying to associate killings for revenge with particular cultures. It has more to do with low self esteem and low intelligence than any kind of ethnic link.
People are conflating what appears to have been a revenge attack gone wrong with "honour killings" - a sick and twisted practice that does have a cultural connection. But that's not really the issue here, at least on the face of it.
sp1814
/// We are talking about a possible revenge attack. Not honour killings or gang-related attacks. ///
And that is precisely what I was referring to ie a revenge attack carried out for the killing of a black lad, my reference about honour killings and 'respect' killings was a different matter.
/// This has more in common with the Philpotts and Ms Smith. ///
Nothing at all in common with the Philptt case, except to say a burning house causing the deaths of some children (in this case young teenagers).
The Phillpot case was were a father started a fire in his home which caused the deaths of his children, I do hope that you can't possibly be suggesting that this Leicester case is anywhere similar to the Derby case?
/// We are talking about a possible revenge attack. Not honour killings or gang-related attacks. ///
And that is precisely what I was referring to ie a revenge attack carried out for the killing of a black lad, my reference about honour killings and 'respect' killings was a different matter.
/// This has more in common with the Philpotts and Ms Smith. ///
Nothing at all in common with the Philptt case, except to say a burning house causing the deaths of some children (in this case young teenagers).
The Phillpot case was were a father started a fire in his home which caused the deaths of his children, I do hope that you can't possibly be suggesting that this Leicester case is anywhere similar to the Derby case?
ummmm
/// I don't know anyone who would carry out revenge attack such as this but I know plenty of white British that would carry out a revenge attack. ///
Wow!!!! and I am constantly classed as racist by some.
Let me edit that statement of yours,
*** I don't know anyone who would carry out revenge attack such as this but I know plenty of Black British that would carry out a revenge attack. ***
And if I had chosen to put that, you would be the first in the queue to condemn me.
/// I don't know anyone who would carry out revenge attack such as this but I know plenty of white British that would carry out a revenge attack. ///
Wow!!!! and I am constantly classed as racist by some.
Let me edit that statement of yours,
*** I don't know anyone who would carry out revenge attack such as this but I know plenty of Black British that would carry out a revenge attack. ***
And if I had chosen to put that, you would be the first in the queue to condemn me.
AOG
The Philpott case was a revenge attack - he was trying to frame his ex-girlfriend who'd left him.
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The Philpott case was a revenge attack - he was trying to frame his ex-girlfriend who'd left him.
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At the moment it looks like the two events are unconnected.
// He died in hospital after an attack in Kent Street, in the Highfields area of Leicester, at about 17:00 BST on Thursday, about a mile from the house.
Three people were arrested on Friday in connection with his death; a 19-year-old man in London and two women, both aged 19. //
// Police said there was no evidence anyone in the house was involved in the death of a man in a street attack. //
//
// He died in hospital after an attack in Kent Street, in the Highfields area of Leicester, at about 17:00 BST on Thursday, about a mile from the house.
Three people were arrested on Friday in connection with his death; a 19-year-old man in London and two women, both aged 19. //
// Police said there was no evidence anyone in the house was involved in the death of a man in a street attack. //
//
-- answer removed --
sp1814
/// So if I identify myself culturally as British, then I'm British, right? ///
One can identify themselves culturally as any nationality or race they care to, but that doesn't make them truly of that nationality or race.
/// And forget 'native Briton'...no-one is debating the meaning of that. ///
Yes they are, I am, just because it does not fit in with your own particular argument, does not mean that I can't use it.
Re African Americans, Irish Americans and Italian American,
Then why do they continue to use those descriptions if they wish to classed as Americans? incidentally I have never heard the term English American.
/// So if I identify myself culturally as British, then I'm British, right? ///
One can identify themselves culturally as any nationality or race they care to, but that doesn't make them truly of that nationality or race.
/// And forget 'native Briton'...no-one is debating the meaning of that. ///
Yes they are, I am, just because it does not fit in with your own particular argument, does not mean that I can't use it.
Re African Americans, Irish Americans and Italian American,
Then why do they continue to use those descriptions if they wish to classed as Americans? incidentally I have never heard the term English American.
No AOG...I was talking about being 'British' and you changed the subject by introducing the term 'native Briton'.
That is a completely different subject.
But back to the subject at hand.
If in your eyes, I am not British, what nationality am I?
Is my passport incorrect?
What should I enter on forms when asked 'Nationality'?
Furthermore, extending your argument...would you say that Helen Mirren should be described as Russia's leading actress, or Britain's leading actress?
Is footballer Graham Le Saux French? If so, should be be banned from playing for England?
What about Rio Ferdinand? Surely he can't play for England? Maybe one half of him could play...but which half?
That is a completely different subject.
But back to the subject at hand.
If in your eyes, I am not British, what nationality am I?
Is my passport incorrect?
What should I enter on forms when asked 'Nationality'?
Furthermore, extending your argument...would you say that Helen Mirren should be described as Russia's leading actress, or Britain's leading actress?
Is footballer Graham Le Saux French? If so, should be be banned from playing for England?
What about Rio Ferdinand? Surely he can't play for England? Maybe one half of him could play...but which half?
naomi24
/// That sounds ominously like you're talking about a pure bloodline going back to the year dot - in which case you can count me out too. ///
Well I don't know what nationality or race you identify yourself with, but I can and I don't need to go back to the 'year dot' to do so.
I am White European, and can say that my ancestors going back hundreds of years were English, so I am defiantly not black or African, that I can be sure of.
/// That sounds ominously like you're talking about a pure bloodline going back to the year dot - in which case you can count me out too. ///
Well I don't know what nationality or race you identify yourself with, but I can and I don't need to go back to the 'year dot' to do so.
I am White European, and can say that my ancestors going back hundreds of years were English, so I am defiantly not black or African, that I can be sure of.
ANOTHEOLDGIT says " sp1814
/// So AOG...I'm not British? ///
It is dependant on what you wish to call yourself, how you act, your particular taste for certain things, and how you dress etc, etc. but unfortunately you cannot be a 'Native Briton' " would you prefer it then if there were a percentage allocated to folks' nationality? How would you weight those qualities you say determine nationality? Would it change from year to year as personal tastes and fashion change? As for being a Native Briton, if you say you are a white Anglo-Saxon, are you a Native Briton?0
/// So AOG...I'm not British? ///
It is dependant on what you wish to call yourself, how you act, your particular taste for certain things, and how you dress etc, etc. but unfortunately you cannot be a 'Native Briton' " would you prefer it then if there were a percentage allocated to folks' nationality? How would you weight those qualities you say determine nationality? Would it change from year to year as personal tastes and fashion change? As for being a Native Briton, if you say you are a white Anglo-Saxon, are you a Native Briton?0
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