Why Is It Considered Right Wing To Want To Look After The Interests Of The Uk?

[ToraToraTora]

UKIP is routinely describd a "right wing" and often "extreme right" - Why is that? why is it a right wing trait to want self determination? Why is it a leftwing trait to want the opposite?

[jim360]

It seems to be a right-wing trait on here to assume that those who disagree with right-wingers are doing so for the specific aim of being anti-British... that my own views on politics might not be the correct ones is something I'm willing to accept (I still have a lot to learn about how the world works etc) but that I'm deliberately promoting damaging ideas is something that is just false. The extremes of both sides do seem to have ideas of destroying institutions of various sizes and types. I think most people are somewhere in the middle, just want what is best for themselves and others, and have wildly differing ideas of how to achieve this.

[whiskeryron]

There are always opposites , where there is left there is right, where there is up there is down, where there is in there is out, etc,etc. I am therefore of the opinion these days that there should be only ONE political party, Namely The Hokey Cokey Party. In Out,In Out, That's What It's All About.

[Kromovaracun]

3T - yes, the left by and large tends to support taxation more than the right does. 'Right wing' in itself is not a pejorative term. I'm unsurprised that you view these policies as unambiguously good with no potential bad consequences whatsoever. Because you seem fairly right wing yourself.

And yes being a climate change sceptic is far more a matter of politics than science.

[ToraToraTora]

you forgot to shake it all about ron.

[ToraToraTora]

the difference is that the taxation policy of the left is based on envy rather than economics. They love direct taxation where as personally I think we could/should abolish direct taxation but that's another argument.

[Kromovaracun]

"the difference is that the taxation policy of the left is based on envy rather than economics"

No it isn't. There happens to be some schools of economics that support the idea of taxation as an equitable way to manage a country's resources.

I know that doesn't fit in with your idiotic stereotype, but there are people who disagree with you and they're not necessarily stupid or "just jealous."

[ToraToraTora]

"There happens to be some schools of economics that support the idea of taxation as an equitable way to manage a country's resources" - I agree 100%, I just don't agree with the method. Collecting direct taxes is incredibly expensive, I just think there is a much better way.

[andy-hughes]

I have always been mystified by the approach of people who see 'England' as 'their' country, and their right to stop other people from coming to live here.

My perspective is this - due to a fortunate accident of birth - and nothing more - I am able to live in this country and enjoy political and social freedoms that others dream of, coupled with safe streets, access to education, and a full stomach.

I did nothing to create or contribute to my situation, I was just very fortunate, and I appreciate my fortune deeply.

However, that does not entitle me to take possesion of the particular bit of the planet I was born on, it's not 'mine' to try and decide who will live or who will not live on my piece of the earth.

The notion of people who refer to 'our people' and 'us' as though the rest of the earth's population are some sub-species to be quarentined away from them is frankly laughable.

No-one owns any of this earth of ours, we are all here to live as best we can, and mealy-mouthed concepts of 'ownership' are stupidly superior and divisive in attitude.

So history shows that the political outlook of people who do think they own this country, and have some sort of personl right to treat it as their own personal fifedom tend to be those who thought that successive right-wing idealists had the right (no pun intended!) idea.

Am I 'proud to be British'? Why would I be? I had no say in my location, I have done nothing significant to add to it, i am grateful, certainly, but 'proud'? Definitely not.

'Pride' in being British is as nonsensical as pride in being white - it's simply fate, nothing more - don't pad your part.

[ToraToraTora]

did you post that on the right question andy?

[Kromovaracun]

" I agree 100%, I just don't agree with the method."

Fine. So do a lot of people - there's plenty of problems with it. But don't stoop to making ridiculous assertions like "it's all about envy" if you're better than that.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - "did you post that on the right question andy?"

Absolutely.

Self-determination is not the same as trying to take ownership of a section of the planet and then stop other people living there.

[Svejk]

come on now, andy. I know for a 'fact' that when the council estate scallies scrump apples from your orchard you set the hounds on them.

[andy-hughes]

Svejk - "come on now, andy. I know for a 'fact' that when the council estate scallies scrump apples from your orchard you set the hounds on them."

Of course, you're right.

I can see that my left-wing lentil-steamng yoghurt-kniiter bleeding-heart liberal approach has not fooled you for a moment.

Like most right-thinking right-wingers, I think that 98% of the population ought to be exterminated!

[New Judge]

No Andy, you didn't create or contribute to the situation you found yourself in when you were born. Your forebears did. They worked hard and many of them made considerable sacrifices to make the UK what it is today. Few people from outside the UK did, and those that did come here to help, in the past at least, came here to contribute towards the nation's well being. You will do the same during your lifetime and hopefully the baton you hand over will be slightly better than the one you received. The population of each nation does the same to a greater or lesser degree, some with greater success than others.

What you are suggesting is that all the work your forebears put in to make the UK (despite all its faults) a fairly agreeable place to live should now be shared with anybody who wants to come here and plunder it. You have to remember that it is not particularly this bit of the earth they want to share, it is the pleasant conditions that you mention, its wealth and everything that goes with it that they seek. These conditions did not develop by accident. They developed because of the hard work of the people who created them.

Unless you are saying that we should dispense with nation states entirely (and I cannot see any other logical conclusion to your argument) government and people here have no right to share those developments with people from other nations without the specific consent of those currently here. And that, I think, is where the difference lies between "right wing" and "left wing" (or any other labels one cares to put on the differing viewpoints). Some people want to conserve the conditions and wealth that has been created by their forebears and others are content to share them with anybody who wants to come here, or indeed to share them with people not here and who have no connection with the UK.

Oh, please, please, don't start a debate about Colonialism and the British Empire !!!!

[ichkeria]

I think UKIP are described as "right wing" because a lot of their policies, in so far as one can make them out, seem to have fallen out of the pockets of the more right-wing members of the Tory party. Nothing whatever to do with general principles of "self-determination"
You're asking two different questions really. The answer to the first is probably "look at their policies" and the answer to the second is
"It isn't", unless you think all separatist groups are right wing

[ToraToraTora]

I assume you live in a nice house Andy, any objection to me filling your back bedroom with Romanian pikies, they can't be ar5ed to work hard and build their own, stilll it's all one world eh?

[ChillDoubt]

Paddywak,
I fully understand, I was pointing out that in these PC days even the mildest display of patriotism will be jumped on by the foil hat, carrot munching, tree hugging great unwashed.
To some, the flying of the cross of St George is an antagonistic display of jingoistic fervour.
It's dreadfully sad that flying the flag of one's country in that country can cause such accusations but it's taken to the extreme in England.

[Zeuhl]

/to be not considered right wing you have to want high taxes, believe scientifc theories and not want immigration, I see, It's all so clear /

Indeed T3 - there are broad correlations there.

'Big Govt' vs 'Small Govt' is usually a Left vs Right position
Environmentalism vs Corporate Exploitation ditto
Internationalism vs Nationalism ditto
.

[Zeuhl]

andy

surely a patch of British soil is available to a large proportion of the people on the planet who can earn and afford to buy it - just as we have to

[sp1814]

TTT

You asked:

"UKIP is routinely describd a "right wing" and often "extreme right" - Why is that? why is it a right wing trait to want self determination? Why is it a leftwing trait to want the opposite?"

What does it really matter?

Popular right wing traits are the trend for small government, self-determination, reduction of taxes etc.

But there are also negative traits (no need to list those).

Same as those described as 'left wing' or 'liberal' (with a small 'l').

What's the big deal?

I don't think anyone could seriously describe UKIP as 'extreme right', but 'right wing' seems fair.

I honestly don't understand what the point is - do you consider the term 'right wing' to be an insult?