Wearing It With Pride?

[AB Editor]

... Or not ...

http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/30/asda-defends-wearable-england-flag-that-looks-like-ku-klux-klan-outfit-4745329/

It doesn't help the "lets take our flag back from racist segments of our society" arguments very much sadly!

[andy-hughes]

emmie - "for some reason you and others are happy to disparage, call low life, scum and worse about your fellow countrymen, just because they wear a flag around their shoulders ...."

No, it is not 'just because they wear a flag around their shoulders' - it is because of the attendant behaviour that goes with that action.

I do not denigrate anyone for wearing anything - unless they use their flag / costume. / style, whatever, to band themselves together with people who en masse behave in a violent and threatening manner.

Which brings me back to my original point - the vague similarity with a KKK costime may encourage those of a hooligan pursuasion to adopt this as part of their apparel. That is not the same as saying that everyone who wears one becomes a thug overnight - that is not what i said, or implied.

[andy-hughes]

kvalidir - I posses about three band tee-shirts which have been given to me by bands i have interviewed.

I have never worn them at any gig, inckuding the bands involved - I don't like dressing like other people - i don't possess the 'bonding' gene that encourages people to band together.

That said, I have absolutely no problem with people who do - my issue is with people who use that 'gang' mentality to behave badly in a way that they would not feel safe to do as individuals.

That is never band or festival fans in my (very very) considerable experience.

[maggiebee]

Is it any wonder Scotland will be going to the poll on the 18th September. Sooner we distance ourselves from this type of racist behaviour the better. Engeeeerland my a*se!!

[ludwig]

// It doesn't look like a KKK robe at all...not one little bit, //

Except for being white with a pointy hood you mean?

andy-hughes is out of order saying it's for knuckle draggers. It's the kind of thing kids might want to wear - and genuine football fans.
The idea that only neo-nazi thugs or racists would want to have anything to do with their country's flag is lame and outdated.

[kvalidir]

//No, it is not 'just because they wear a flag around their shoulders' - it is because of the attendant behaviour that goes with that action.''

I do not denigrate anyone for wearing anything - unless they use their flag / costume. / style, whatever, to band themselves together with people who en masse behave in a violent and threatening manner. //


I have worn a flag around my shoulders andy and I am probably more left wing and ' right on' than you. Wearing anything doesn't ' band you together' with anyone, it's a matter of personal choice and to be honest opinions like yours do make it harder for people to wear their flag without all of the negative connotations you attach to it.. This is an insulting generalisation, and not accurate at all.

[ludwig]

..forgot to say - it'd be fine if they just lost the stupid hood.

[andy-hughes]

kvalidir - "I have worn a flag around my shoulders andy and I am probably more left wing and ' right on' than you."

maybe - we have no way of measuring that do we - if indeed we cared.

"Wearing anything doesn't ' band you together' with anyone, it's a matter of personal choice ..."

I totally disagree. Entire swathes of youth culture from Teddy Boys onwards - New Romatics, Skinheads, Goths, Emos, Metalheads, Rappers ... the list goes on and on and all their visual styling is rooted in a sense of cultural bonding and belonging.

"... and to be honest opinions like yours do make it harder for people to wear their flag without all of the negative connotations you attach to it.. This is an insulting generalisation, and not accurate at all."

I would be utterly amazed if my opinion influenced anyone anywhere and made it harder for them to wear a flag if they wish - but thankyou for empowering me, but I really don't deserve it.

[kvalidir]

No you don't deserve it as you have inaccurately quoted me. I said opinions LIKE yours, not yours particularly. You still haven't answered my first question either. Do you have a band t shirt or a festival t shirt, because if you do then you are a thundering hypocrite:)

[B00]

Yes he did

"kvalidir - I posses about three band tee-shirts which have been given to me by bands i have interviewed.

I have never worn them at any gig, inckuding the bands involved "

[kvalidir]

Thanks Boo, missed that :)

[jackthehat]

I saw it, thought it looked naff and decided that I wouldn't wear one even if someone else was to purchase it for me.

I think it is a bit of a stretch to say it resembles any kkk outfit.....perhaps if it was not predominantly white (say it was the full Union Flag) there would be no such 'outcry'; unfortunately, the flag of England IS predominantly white.

As to Andy's comments, I rather think that ABers are savvy enough to know exactly what he meant and simply getting all affronted just for the sake of it.

[royfromaus]

I have been to many football matches both domestic and international.
When I see fans attired in England flags, maybe a St George's bowler hat or even dressed in full Crusader garb, I look at them and think knuckle dra...actually no I look at them and think that they are probably just getting into the spirit of things and are possibly having a better time than me.

Genuine football thugs who attend matches looking for trouble do not wear the colours of their chosen team.

[venator]

Perhaps they should have made them burqa style - nobody would dare say anything ...

[Svejk]

'lets give white, working-class people a good kicking'?

[DrFilth]

.
which are the bad ones andy ?
the knuckle draggers with the flags or the church mob
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k56_o9XRQFQ

[andy-hughes]

jackthehat - "As to Andy's comments, I rather think that ABers are savvy enough to know exactly what he meant and simply getting all affronted just for the sake of it."

Thanks jack!

I am beginning to feel that some AB'ers are missing the point of what I have said - including DrFilth who'se example does not fit my point in any way shape or form..

[DrFilth]

> including DrFilth who'se example does not fit my point in any way shape or form.. <

one way of not giving an answer

[jackthehat]

I have no idea of what point you are making, or trying to make, DrF......but I suspect that it has three-fifths of sod-all to do with either the OP or any point andy raised....

[DrFilth]

it was a simple question jackthehat

which are the bad ones andy ?
the knuckle draggers with the flags or the church mob


he does not need to write a 4000 word essay to answer it

[jackthehat]

Why do you suppose he views any of them as knuckle-draggers?