We All Know He Is 'crackers' So Why Release Him?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2692585/One-Lee-Rigby-s-killers-wins-right-appeal-against-life-sentence-suffers-mental-health-problems.html

/// It emerged this morning that, because of his mental health, he will now be able to appeal against his sentence in a bid to win an early release. ///

What to kill again?

When will they ever learn?

[Old_Geezer]

One may go through the fruitless motions of regular appeals as often as one wishes, but we ought to send the bill for it to the EU.

[Peter Pedant]

agchristie - on a point of order Guildford Four Birmingham Six and Renault - 2- chevaux were not Diplock courts.

but I know you are gonna say - Diplock Courts - they were much worse !

Not sure if I would run a serioius appeal - I am mad so let me out....
It didnt work for Sutcliffe

[ludwig]

zeuhl // I am opposed to killing people

You two are over there with Adebowale and his ilk and think that it's ok when it suits your purposes //

Presumably you don't think we should have any armed forces or armed police then?

[Zeuhl]

/Strange why you missed out the five most commonly used tired clinche 'Racists' 'Homophobics' 'Islamaphobics' 'Xenophobics' and 'Bigots'/

You're confusing different things aog

The list you quote are all clearly understood terms with definitions and etymology albeit we can debate whether they are appropriately applied.

SP's list of 'Right on brigade', 'knuckle draggers' 'swivel eyed loons' are little more than schoolyard name calling.

A bit of a laugh in moderation but not a substitute for intelligent comment.

I would also add the childish practice of misspelling terms to try and belittle them; 'noo laybore' 'ooman rights' etc

It's silly and tedious.

[agchristie]

PP - Yes,I know,I was just pointing out that the Diplock system has proved no better at times....

My first post was an underlining of examples where the system goes wrong.Of course,in the Rigby case it was clear what happened but all the evidence still had to be put before the court.

[Zeuhl]

/Presumably you don't think we should have any armed forces or armed police then? /

I think you'll find they have Codes and Rules of Engagement concerning 'killing people'

I would categorise lethal force by Police and Armed Forces with the overall intention of 'self defence' - indeed if we went into battle and there was nothing to defend against ie all the opposing troops were manacled, hooded and sedated - it wouldn't be much of a fight would it?

Killing someone in an open fire fight or the heat of the moment is one thing - choosing to take a person who is incarcerated in a prison and walking them sedated and tethered up a scaffold and killing them in cold blood is rather different.

[sp1814]

Zeuhl

And 'elf and safety'.

Oh Lord...people who think that is still witty are the same people who negate a statement with "...not".

It was funny back in 1993 when Wayne's World was out. Not so much 21 years later.

AOG...you may be right. Not sure...but I see 'right on brigade almost daily now' and like the phrases you have listed, it seems to describe 'anyone who disagrees with my viewpoint'.

'Knuckle-draggers' and 'swivel-eyed loons' are by contrast hilarious phrases which, whilst still useful, should be avoided for a while.

[Peter Pedant]

AgChristie - no I think he did it - ( adewole )

but there again I thought the B'ham Bombers had done it - coz they did actually say they had ( multiple times altho I agree also in multiple ways )

[ludwig]

So you're over there with Adebowale and his ilk too then - Ok when it suits your purposes.

Just clarifying, because I think things are never as black and white as 'killing is wrong'.

[Zeuhl]

Yes...

and 'Right Whingers' to be fair

and snide references to coffee establishments in Islington

etc etc

yawn

[Zeuhl]

True ludwig

but I can't understand how some people don't see the contradiction in condemning the actions of someone like Adebowale

'I decided that person needed to be killed so i did it'

and then doing the same to them

especially when you add in that there is no significant deterrent factor and the ample evidence of mistakes.

I think aog had it right in a rare (and probably unintentional) moment of openness when he said earlier that it was about 'retaliation'

Retaliation doesn't seem to me to be a particularly respectable or productive motivation

[ludwig]

I understand - no retaliation. So in summary; ok to kill someone who hasn't actually committed a crime but looks like they might be about to (self defence), but morally wrong to kill someone who definitely has committed a crime (retaliation).

[Zeuhl]

Ludwig sorry for delay - pesky meeting

morally wrong to kill someone who definitely has committed a crime (retaliation)

Yes. If killing is bad, killing is bad.

And Yes - ok to kill someone in order to prevent them from killing you or a third party (self defence)

[naomi24]

Of course he suffers mental health problems. He's a Muslim convert and an extremist. Got to say if the worst befalls him - whatever that may be - I'll shed no tears.

[ummmm]

He'll be got at. Just look at how many times Sutcliffe has been attacked.

[sandyRoe]

He'd probably be safer in prison where there is a sizeable community of Islamic inmates.

[ummmm]

I don't think they'll be kind to him (the prison) they'll move him about so he can't make friends.

[Hypognosis]

I used to be completey against the death penalty. More than ten years ago I decided to make an exception for the exceptional circumstance of murder in a public place, with multiple witnesses etc. Odd to concur with AOG, for once and he has refined it to include arrest at the scene - no chase, no ambiguity over identity.

It's annoying that the expense, not to say charade, of a trial was even required but that's the law of the land and I must respect it.

[sp1814]

I find my views lurch to the 'right' when it comes to crime and punishment.

Personally, I believe that jail should be a completely miserable experience, with zero Internet access and zero in cell entertainment.

Also, you know where inmates get time off for good behaviour? I think it should be the other way around. A five year sentence is a five year sentence, which will have mandatory increases for *bad* behaviour.

As part of the sentence, inmates without skills will have to choose from a number of vocational subjects so that when they are released, they at least have a better opportunity to get work.

If they refuse vocational training, then their sentences are added to, until they do.

However, I just don't agree with the death penalty. I don't think it's the deterrent some think it is.

Me...I'd be much less likely to commit a crime if I knew there was a hefty lump of jail time in front of me.

[naomi24]

I don’t think the death penalty is necessarily meant to be a deterrent – more a guarantee that the perpetrator can't kill again.