News1 min ago
Selfish Suicide With Bells On
Suicide is a selfish cowards way out, and this guy certainly made sure the woman who left him didn't forget him
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viv38 - "Not getting involved with you andy, sorry ! And I won't be commenting again .....
Oh and I stand by what I said !!"
No need to apologis viv, although I am curious as to why you choose not to carry this strand of the debate further.
However, you are of course entitled to your view, and I respect your wish not to continue posting, but I am disappointed.
I hope you do not feel in any way intimidated or browbeaten by my question, it was absolutely not my intention - I merely see a dichotomy in your position, and wondered about exploring your view, and the experience that has formed it, a little further.
My apologies if I have upset you, however inadvertently.
Oh and I stand by what I said !!"
No need to apologis viv, although I am curious as to why you choose not to carry this strand of the debate further.
However, you are of course entitled to your view, and I respect your wish not to continue posting, but I am disappointed.
I hope you do not feel in any way intimidated or browbeaten by my question, it was absolutely not my intention - I merely see a dichotomy in your position, and wondered about exploring your view, and the experience that has formed it, a little further.
My apologies if I have upset you, however inadvertently.
AH.......'Joeluke - "Suicide is a choice that someone makes......"
Actually, that is exactly what it is not.
Suicide is the final chance to kill the pain - and that is what suicide is about.'
So, 'Suicide is the final chance to kill the pain'.........and this selfish coward CHOSE to kill his pain - by cold-heartedly condemning his ex to a lifetime of nightmares and mental anguish
Actually, that is exactly what it is not.
Suicide is the final chance to kill the pain - and that is what suicide is about.'
So, 'Suicide is the final chance to kill the pain'.........and this selfish coward CHOSE to kill his pain - by cold-heartedly condemning his ex to a lifetime of nightmares and mental anguish
joeluke - I am at a loss to understand the vehemence with which you condemn this poor man - your posts positively seethe with anger, but your reasons for your views are your own.
I accept that we must agree to disagree on our approaches, but I would say this -
my experiences of life have taught me many things. Three years as a Samaritan volunteer shattered a lot of the myths about suicide for me - the notion that people who talk about it don't do it - that is patently not true. So that gave me an intellectual insight into Depression and the fear and isolation it brings, sometimes that it is so unbearable that death looks like a very attractive alternative.
My parallel experience was of a complete nervous breakdown twenty-five years ago which saw me hospitalised in an asylum for three months, off work for a year, and remaining on anti-depressant medication, probably for life.
There I endured an up close and personal experience of just how bad things can get, and just how much longing for the escape of death becomes an obsession.
So armed with these experiences, I do know of what I speak.
Your last post says "... this selfish coward CHOSE to kill his pain ..." - again your anger is very apparent from you use of capital letters to underline your point.
But again, I must disagree. This man was not selfish, nor was he a coward, nor did he make a choice. He was desparate, literally out of his mind, and wanting to hit back at the pain, and its direct cause.
Please don't misunderstand me - I do not for one moment condone his actions, or wish to minimise the effect of his actions on his ex-partner - but I wish to stress that this was not revenge or cruelty in a premeditated act, it was the last moments of a seriously disturbed mind desperate for an end to his suffering, and I can only feel sympathy and empathy for all involved, because I do understand exactly how he felt.
I hope my explanation goes some way towards altering your very firmly held views on suicide, if not, then we must simply agree to hold our respective views on the issue.
I accept that we must agree to disagree on our approaches, but I would say this -
my experiences of life have taught me many things. Three years as a Samaritan volunteer shattered a lot of the myths about suicide for me - the notion that people who talk about it don't do it - that is patently not true. So that gave me an intellectual insight into Depression and the fear and isolation it brings, sometimes that it is so unbearable that death looks like a very attractive alternative.
My parallel experience was of a complete nervous breakdown twenty-five years ago which saw me hospitalised in an asylum for three months, off work for a year, and remaining on anti-depressant medication, probably for life.
There I endured an up close and personal experience of just how bad things can get, and just how much longing for the escape of death becomes an obsession.
So armed with these experiences, I do know of what I speak.
Your last post says "... this selfish coward CHOSE to kill his pain ..." - again your anger is very apparent from you use of capital letters to underline your point.
But again, I must disagree. This man was not selfish, nor was he a coward, nor did he make a choice. He was desparate, literally out of his mind, and wanting to hit back at the pain, and its direct cause.
Please don't misunderstand me - I do not for one moment condone his actions, or wish to minimise the effect of his actions on his ex-partner - but I wish to stress that this was not revenge or cruelty in a premeditated act, it was the last moments of a seriously disturbed mind desperate for an end to his suffering, and I can only feel sympathy and empathy for all involved, because I do understand exactly how he felt.
I hope my explanation goes some way towards altering your very firmly held views on suicide, if not, then we must simply agree to hold our respective views on the issue.
-- answer removed --
I would agree that he had to be seriously disturbed, why else would he have taken his own life? This does not preclude the act from being premeditated, as I said earlier in the thread, he had a massive choice of suicide methods. It is neither credible or feasible that he ended up struck by a train driven by his ex by chance.
divebuddy - "In fact it shows you to have absolutely no understanding of something you claim to be an expert about."
In no way do I 'claim to be an expert' - I merely speak from person experience.
"You are clearly not in a position to pontificate to others what they should and should not think about this incident."
I entirely agree - which is why I do not 'pontificate' - merely pass on my experience and opinion, as does every other poster on the thread, so I am unsure why I am being singled out for your hostility.
I am certainly not trying to tell anyone how they should think about this, or any other subject - again I am unsure why you would think that I am.
I am expressing an opinion of a situation, of which I have some personal experience, and debating with others who do not share my viewpoint.
If you wish to argue my position, please feel free, that is the point of the site, but please refrain from unfounded assumptions as to my stance or my intention. Thanks.
In no way do I 'claim to be an expert' - I merely speak from person experience.
"You are clearly not in a position to pontificate to others what they should and should not think about this incident."
I entirely agree - which is why I do not 'pontificate' - merely pass on my experience and opinion, as does every other poster on the thread, so I am unsure why I am being singled out for your hostility.
I am certainly not trying to tell anyone how they should think about this, or any other subject - again I am unsure why you would think that I am.
I am expressing an opinion of a situation, of which I have some personal experience, and debating with others who do not share my viewpoint.
If you wish to argue my position, please feel free, that is the point of the site, but please refrain from unfounded assumptions as to my stance or my intention. Thanks.
-- answer removed --
It's obviously different for different people. Suicide, if it happens, "should" be selfish - it certainly shouldn't be for someone else's benefit. While I agree with a lot of what you say, Andy, I think -in this case- revenge, malice, control and torment were a large part if the motivation, just by the chosen method.
joeluke - "AH......'this was not revenge or cruelty in a premeditated act'"
I accept that my sentence was poorly constructed.
What I meant to say was that I don't believe that revenge or cruelty was the main driving force of this man's action - although since it remains the behaviour of a seriously disturbed mind, we can never know.
My point was that I believe that his suicide was not planned for considerable time in advance - more an impulsive desicion based on his mental state at the time - but like everyone else on here, I am speculating because I have no way of knowing the truth.
That does not however invalidate my speculation, although perhaps some aspects of it are less well considered that others.
You have yet to respond to my point about your considerable anger about this situation. My posts are necessarily dispassionate since I have no knowledge of the people involved - yours however are seriously angry - why?
I accept that my sentence was poorly constructed.
What I meant to say was that I don't believe that revenge or cruelty was the main driving force of this man's action - although since it remains the behaviour of a seriously disturbed mind, we can never know.
My point was that I believe that his suicide was not planned for considerable time in advance - more an impulsive desicion based on his mental state at the time - but like everyone else on here, I am speculating because I have no way of knowing the truth.
That does not however invalidate my speculation, although perhaps some aspects of it are less well considered that others.
You have yet to respond to my point about your considerable anger about this situation. My posts are necessarily dispassionate since I have no knowledge of the people involved - yours however are seriously angry - why?
anneasquith - "slightly of topic. andy, I don't believe you were treated in an asylum 25 years ago, psychiatric hospital ?"
A fair point anne - it was indeed a psychiatric hospital.
I used the word 'assylum' in its original context - a place of safety, which indeed it was.
The hospital was built in Victorian times, and as was the custom then, it was built outside the city, with large grounds that allowed patients to roam safely, unencumbered by large society, or the noise and trauma of a town or city.
There was also the additional benefit that patients would not be run over - since the simple act of crossing a road would be beyond most of them - certainly myself included!
Sadly, as in most cases, the hospital was closed, the main building converted into luxury flats, and the land used to build a housing estate.
The facilities were transferred to the nearest hospital, with the psych wards being placed right next to a busy dual carriageway.
That's 'modern' mental health care for you.
A fair point anne - it was indeed a psychiatric hospital.
I used the word 'assylum' in its original context - a place of safety, which indeed it was.
The hospital was built in Victorian times, and as was the custom then, it was built outside the city, with large grounds that allowed patients to roam safely, unencumbered by large society, or the noise and trauma of a town or city.
There was also the additional benefit that patients would not be run over - since the simple act of crossing a road would be beyond most of them - certainly myself included!
Sadly, as in most cases, the hospital was closed, the main building converted into luxury flats, and the land used to build a housing estate.
The facilities were transferred to the nearest hospital, with the psych wards being placed right next to a busy dual carriageway.
That's 'modern' mental health care for you.
agchristie - we will never know.
Whatever the thoughts and motivations behind this situation, a despairing man has died violently, and his friends and family, and of course his ex, are traumatised and devastated.
Surely, that is the aspect we should all focus on, evidence of his motivations are a secondary concern.
Whatever the thoughts and motivations behind this situation, a despairing man has died violently, and his friends and family, and of course his ex, are traumatised and devastated.
Surely, that is the aspect we should all focus on, evidence of his motivations are a secondary concern.
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