Crosswords7 mins ago
Should There Be A Lasting Memorial For Murdered Lee Rigby, Such As The One That Was Placed For Stephen Lawrence, A Few Miles Away In Eltham?
170 Answers
Answers
Andy, you're a very vociferous and opinionated person. So much so that you often have to issue apologies. Yet if you feel transgressed against, you don your moderator cap and threaten people. Imo, you should either moderate your own behaviour or stop issuing threats to others.(or better still, both)
15:57 Wed 29th Oct 2014
Gromit - "Andy-hughes
That was not my quote it was AOGs quote, which is why it is in the // quote // format."
Yes, I did realise that, when I referred to 'your quote', I meant your quoting of AOG's previous post - apologies if I did not make myself clear.
"I do not see the sense in designing monuments for attack, and then sending the perpetrators to prison as terrorists.
A memorial in a safe place, where it can be protected is the sensible course. Lee Rigby's barracks is nearby, so that is the sensible place for it. I am sure a public subscription would quickly raise the money."
I think you have summed up the answer on this one.
That was not my quote it was AOGs quote, which is why it is in the // quote // format."
Yes, I did realise that, when I referred to 'your quote', I meant your quoting of AOG's previous post - apologies if I did not make myself clear.
"I do not see the sense in designing monuments for attack, and then sending the perpetrators to prison as terrorists.
A memorial in a safe place, where it can be protected is the sensible course. Lee Rigby's barracks is nearby, so that is the sensible place for it. I am sure a public subscription would quickly raise the money."
I think you have summed up the answer on this one.
ChillDoubt - "At the risk of appearing pedantic, Lee Rigby would have been a tad upset at being referred to as 'Gunner Rigby', when he was in fact a Fusilier.
Forces folk tend to be a bit tetchy about that sort of thing, particularly in death.
RIP"
Thanks for the clarification - these things are important, and I stand corrected.
Forces folk tend to be a bit tetchy about that sort of thing, particularly in death.
RIP"
Thanks for the clarification - these things are important, and I stand corrected.
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// The 7/7 memorial in Hyde Park has been defaced with graffiti on the eve of commemorations of the London bomb attack nine years ago. //
Obviously this attack caused distress to the victims of the 7/7 bombings. Do the family and friends of every victim now have to have a structure to be attacked and relive heir outrage?
// The 7/7 memorial in Hyde Park has been defaced with graffiti on the eve of commemorations of the London bomb attack nine years ago. //
Obviously this attack caused distress to the victims of the 7/7 bombings. Do the family and friends of every victim now have to have a structure to be attacked and relive heir outrage?
andy-hughes
The reason I brought the memorial for Stephen Lawrence into the argument is because there are similar references to the two, made in various news reports on the subject as well as this mornings phone-in on radio LBC.
So I think my reference to the two is quite legitimate.
/// All murders are violent tragic losses of life, but if everyone attracted a memorial, then the streets would be impassible in a very short space of
time. ///
We are not suggesting that all murders that are committed should be remembered by a plaque that would be quite silly, but taking that into account why was one allowed for Stephen Lawrence?
The reason I brought the memorial for Stephen Lawrence into the argument is because there are similar references to the two, made in various news reports on the subject as well as this mornings phone-in on radio LBC.
So I think my reference to the two is quite legitimate.
/// All murders are violent tragic losses of life, but if everyone attracted a memorial, then the streets would be impassible in a very short space of
time. ///
We are not suggesting that all murders that are committed should be remembered by a plaque that would be quite silly, but taking that into account why was one allowed for Stephen Lawrence?
Gromit - "// The 7/7 memorial in Hyde Park has been defaced with graffiti on the eve of commemorations of the London bomb attack nine years ago. //
Obviously this attack caused distress to the victims of the 7/7 bombings. Do the family and friends of every victim now have to have a structure to be attacked and relive heir outrage?"
I think, as you and others have suggested - a plaque placed within a secure building with public access would be the way to avoid a repetition of this mindless hurtful behaviour.
Time was when any memorial would be respected - but that time has sadly passed - only the circumstances requiring them, and the need for society to acknowledge tragedy remains.
Obviously this attack caused distress to the victims of the 7/7 bombings. Do the family and friends of every victim now have to have a structure to be attacked and relive heir outrage?"
I think, as you and others have suggested - a plaque placed within a secure building with public access would be the way to avoid a repetition of this mindless hurtful behaviour.
Time was when any memorial would be respected - but that time has sadly passed - only the circumstances requiring them, and the need for society to acknowledge tragedy remains.
Lee Rigby was not alone on that street.....there were others in that place at that time.
He was killed by an enemy because of who he was and because it was known what he stood for......
So a his name on a lasting memorial is more than appropriate.
If it is attacked/vandalised...replace it....every time...x
He was killed by an enemy because of who he was and because it was known what he stood for......
So a his name on a lasting memorial is more than appropriate.
If it is attacked/vandalised...replace it....every time...x
gness - "Lee Rigby was not alone on that street.....there were others in that place at that time.
He was killed by an enemy because of who he was and because it was known what he stood for......"
Absolutely - but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time simply because he was a soldier - but that does not equate with falling in battle, which is my understanding of the reason why his name has not been included.
I am not saying I agree with the reasoning behind that decision, I am merely pointing out that it is what the reasoning is.
"So a his name on a lasting memorial is more than appropriate."
Again, I have no argument with that point, but as I have agreed with other posters, the location and format should be given consideration to avoid senselss vandalism which can only add to the distress of relatives and friends, to say nothing of creating a rolling waste of money which can be far better spent elsehwere.
I refer to the replacement of the memorial, not its original placement, to avoid any confusion.
"If it is attacked/vandalised...replace it....every time...x"
Please see my sentence before last.
He was killed by an enemy because of who he was and because it was known what he stood for......"
Absolutely - but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time simply because he was a soldier - but that does not equate with falling in battle, which is my understanding of the reason why his name has not been included.
I am not saying I agree with the reasoning behind that decision, I am merely pointing out that it is what the reasoning is.
"So a his name on a lasting memorial is more than appropriate."
Again, I have no argument with that point, but as I have agreed with other posters, the location and format should be given consideration to avoid senselss vandalism which can only add to the distress of relatives and friends, to say nothing of creating a rolling waste of money which can be far better spent elsehwere.
I refer to the replacement of the memorial, not its original placement, to avoid any confusion.
"If it is attacked/vandalised...replace it....every time...x"
Please see my sentence before last.
Indeed AOG conflated the Lee Rigby plaque story and the Stephen Lawrence plaque story earlier this year and got an large number of responses.
I think I said at the time that Stephen Lawrence's plaque had been defaced since going up, at the hands of the usual suspects (their knuckles Re generally disfigured due to the high amount of dragging undertaken).
I suspect any memorial plaque to Lee Rigby will similarly be attacked at some point, because there are scumbags in every ethnicity.
Perhaps a plaque in a public building, or a place which is monitored by cctv?
Dunno.
I'm not against the idea, but I think I can see AOG's point in conflating the two stories. With Lee Rigby, the murderers were quicky brought to justice.
With Stephen Lawrence, his family had to fight for years for justice to be done. Admittedly, there are still some (even on AB), whose attitude to Doreen can be summed up with, "Oh for goodness sake, get over it" - but like the mother of Lee Rigby who saw justice served, it's right that we have a reminder that sometimes justice has to be fought for.
And AOG's highlighting of the disgraceful was Stephen Lawrence's brutal murder by racist filth, is laudable.
I think I said at the time that Stephen Lawrence's plaque had been defaced since going up, at the hands of the usual suspects (their knuckles Re generally disfigured due to the high amount of dragging undertaken).
I suspect any memorial plaque to Lee Rigby will similarly be attacked at some point, because there are scumbags in every ethnicity.
Perhaps a plaque in a public building, or a place which is monitored by cctv?
Dunno.
I'm not against the idea, but I think I can see AOG's point in conflating the two stories. With Lee Rigby, the murderers were quicky brought to justice.
With Stephen Lawrence, his family had to fight for years for justice to be done. Admittedly, there are still some (even on AB), whose attitude to Doreen can be summed up with, "Oh for goodness sake, get over it" - but like the mother of Lee Rigby who saw justice served, it's right that we have a reminder that sometimes justice has to be fought for.
And AOG's highlighting of the disgraceful was Stephen Lawrence's brutal murder by racist filth, is laudable.
mikey4444
/// I too fail to see the connection between the two murders. In one the Police consistently failed to its job properly, or even take the murder seriously, and had to shamed into taking action. In the other they acted promptly, and were assisted by a member of the public, a very brave lady indeed. I also don't recall the family of Rigby being spied on by the Police ///
What a ridiculous argument, one of many we have come to expect from the apologetic left.
Who said anyone was comparing the two murders? But what we are discussing is why one was remembered by a plaque whereas the other was not deemed appropriate.
/// But what does his Mum say ? She is on record for being very angry when the murder of her son was hi-jacked by racist and Fascist ///
His Mum wants a memorial to him, that is what this is all about, but why should that stop some taking the chance of bringing the words racist and fascist into the debate.
/// I too fail to see the connection between the two murders. In one the Police consistently failed to its job properly, or even take the murder seriously, and had to shamed into taking action. In the other they acted promptly, and were assisted by a member of the public, a very brave lady indeed. I also don't recall the family of Rigby being spied on by the Police ///
What a ridiculous argument, one of many we have come to expect from the apologetic left.
Who said anyone was comparing the two murders? But what we are discussing is why one was remembered by a plaque whereas the other was not deemed appropriate.
/// But what does his Mum say ? She is on record for being very angry when the murder of her son was hi-jacked by racist and Fascist ///
His Mum wants a memorial to him, that is what this is all about, but why should that stop some taking the chance of bringing the words racist and fascist into the debate.
-- answer removed --
Then I will have to strongly disagree with those who say Lee didn't fall in battle, Andy.....for me he did.
To continue to replace a memorial...or repair damage to his name....well my head is trying to agree with you....but my heart always wins over...so I would do that.... every time....
I can't put myself in the place of his family and friends....but I would see the attacks on my son's name, by the enemy who killed him, as a small victory...
....that sounds perverse, but I know what I mean.....please don't take my inability to express it well the wrong way....x
I like the idea of a memorial bench......a place to reflect.....
To continue to replace a memorial...or repair damage to his name....well my head is trying to agree with you....but my heart always wins over...so I would do that.... every time....
I can't put myself in the place of his family and friends....but I would see the attacks on my son's name, by the enemy who killed him, as a small victory...
....that sounds perverse, but I know what I mean.....please don't take my inability to express it well the wrong way....x
I like the idea of a memorial bench......a place to reflect.....
What a difference a few months makes
This from February 2014
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This from June 2014
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This from September 2014
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This from February 2014
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This from June 2014
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This from September 2014
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