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Politics1 min ago
Hillsborough Disaster: Fans Unlawfully Killed
http://
At last...the truth is out.
Some important points from the above :::
Police failures led to the deaths in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
Jurors answered yes to the question about whether any police error caused or contributed to a dangerous situation at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.
The behaviour of Liverpool fans did not contribute to the dangerous situation at the turnstiles.
At last...the truth is out.
Some important points from the above :::
Police failures led to the deaths in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
Jurors answered yes to the question about whether any police error caused or contributed to a dangerous situation at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.
The behaviour of Liverpool fans did not contribute to the dangerous situation at the turnstiles.
Answers
Retrocop - in reference to the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire's suspension - //Why has this man got to be the scapegoat and fall on his sword.// It is nothing to do with being a 'scapegoat' - it is to do with being head of an organisation which is revealed to have wilfully obstructed the inquest in its investigatio
08:28 Thu 28th Apr 2016
The chief constable ( the one that has been suspended ) has spent quite a lot of public money ( around £20m ) instructing lawyers in court to follow or project a shot point of view ( that is £20m to show the crowd were possed - when erm the facts show they werent )
he cd have thrown the money sponge in far earlier ( said OK I/we accept that they were largely sober ) and they are talking about that would have made the inquest 50% shorter .... wow
he cd have thrown the money sponge in far earlier ( said OK I/we accept that they were largely sober ) and they are talking about that would have made the inquest 50% shorter .... wow
Retrocop - in reference to the Chief Constable of South Yorkshire's suspension - //Why has this man got to be the scapegoat and fall on his sword.//
It is nothing to do with being a 'scapegoat' - it is to do with being head of an organisation which is revealed to have wilfully obstructed the inquest in its investigations, and continued the entire tragic situation by a further two years.
If you are head of an organisation that includes liars, perjurers, bullies, and an entire culture of closing ranks and lying to bereaved families, and the nation at large who pay your salary, then you are accountable, and that is why he is suspended.
If he does 'fall on his sword' as you so dramatically put it, I am sure his eight figure pension will dull the pain.
It is nothing to do with being a 'scapegoat' - it is to do with being head of an organisation which is revealed to have wilfully obstructed the inquest in its investigations, and continued the entire tragic situation by a further two years.
If you are head of an organisation that includes liars, perjurers, bullies, and an entire culture of closing ranks and lying to bereaved families, and the nation at large who pay your salary, then you are accountable, and that is why he is suspended.
If he does 'fall on his sword' as you so dramatically put it, I am sure his eight figure pension will dull the pain.
//Why indeed?//
erm ... because there are 98 people dead ( = small trains worth ) and people lied at the original inquiries
even Mrs T ( bless ! ) wrote " do we have to go thro all this again ? " in a memo but unfortunately it was on files concerning IRA bombers who er didnt do anything let alone bomb, but had been convicted by perjured evidence
erm ... because there are 98 people dead ( = small trains worth ) and people lied at the original inquiries
even Mrs T ( bless ! ) wrote " do we have to go thro all this again ? " in a memo but unfortunately it was on files concerning IRA bombers who er didnt do anything let alone bomb, but had been convicted by perjured evidence
Svejk - //If 'we' can take a combination of circumstances that led to tragedy and weaponise it to gleefully give the police a kicking, Naomi, why shouldn't 'we'? //
Would that be comparable to the 'kicking' the police gave the families of the bereaved by lying, perjuring, and carrying on the inquest far past a necessary conclusion with its dissembling and chicanery?
Well no it wouldn't - because trhe police used public money to lie to the courts and the families, and they were simply protecting their sorry hides, the families were protecting the trashed memories of their loved ones for whom the fight was never about a cover-up and lies, just the truth.
On reflection, there is only one 'kicking' that has been delivered here, and it was not directed at the police.
Would that be comparable to the 'kicking' the police gave the families of the bereaved by lying, perjuring, and carrying on the inquest far past a necessary conclusion with its dissembling and chicanery?
Well no it wouldn't - because trhe police used public money to lie to the courts and the families, and they were simply protecting their sorry hides, the families were protecting the trashed memories of their loved ones for whom the fight was never about a cover-up and lies, just the truth.
On reflection, there is only one 'kicking' that has been delivered here, and it was not directed at the police.
retro - like the you the current chief constable maintained the crowd were drunk and spent a lot of money following this point of view in the coroners court
twenty mill - - to show what we knew anyway ....
and yes I would expect to be suspended if I wasted that amount of someone else's ( ours ) money
twenty mill - - to show what we knew anyway ....
and yes I would expect to be suspended if I wasted that amount of someone else's ( ours ) money
murraymints - //crowd control outside the stadium was not handled well..a chain of poor decisions had a tragic outcome..who made these decisions ? no escaping it..The Polis !!! //
As I pointed out in my original post, I am entirely in sympathy with all levels of the police on the day of this tragedy, a combination of factors, of which poor decisions were only a part, combined to create this dreadful situation.
Where my sympathy stops is with the wilful dissemination and continued efforts to smear the dead ad bereaved in order to cover up the errors made by the police, which has seen lies perpetuated for over two decades, and finally exposed this week.
Making a mistake, by definition, is accidental, and human.
Lying as a police service in a calculated effort costing eight figures of public money and the peace of mind of bereaved innocents, in order to avoid responsibility, is deliberate, and frankly inhuman.
The fact that this horrible secretive cover-up was perpetuated by the very organisation whose core ethos is to protect and defend the very same people, makes their behaviour utterly beyond contempt.
If the current Chief Constable has to retire early, or 'fall on his sword' as it has been described in a moment of facile hyperbole, at least he will live out his life in luxury - having lost his integrity, but not his family.
Better to 'fall on his sword' and live in deserved and total shame and ignominy, than to fall on the dirty concrete floor of a football stadium and be crushed to death through no fault of your own except being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As I pointed out in my original post, I am entirely in sympathy with all levels of the police on the day of this tragedy, a combination of factors, of which poor decisions were only a part, combined to create this dreadful situation.
Where my sympathy stops is with the wilful dissemination and continued efforts to smear the dead ad bereaved in order to cover up the errors made by the police, which has seen lies perpetuated for over two decades, and finally exposed this week.
Making a mistake, by definition, is accidental, and human.
Lying as a police service in a calculated effort costing eight figures of public money and the peace of mind of bereaved innocents, in order to avoid responsibility, is deliberate, and frankly inhuman.
The fact that this horrible secretive cover-up was perpetuated by the very organisation whose core ethos is to protect and defend the very same people, makes their behaviour utterly beyond contempt.
If the current Chief Constable has to retire early, or 'fall on his sword' as it has been described in a moment of facile hyperbole, at least he will live out his life in luxury - having lost his integrity, but not his family.
Better to 'fall on his sword' and live in deserved and total shame and ignominy, than to fall on the dirty concrete floor of a football stadium and be crushed to death through no fault of your own except being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Svejk - //It's a reasonable assumption, backed by local reports that were suppressed in the enquiry, that a lot of the supporters that turned up late had been drinking.
And although some of you are determined to brush it under the carpet, they were the cause of the crush at the front of the stand. //
As I have pointed out - the mass rush was caused by crowd dynamics, not inebritation.
If a crowd, any crowd, is in a crush, and sees a piece of space, the entire crowd will push towards it - and that is what happened here.
Had the crowd been a bunch of pilgrims turning out to see the Pope, the result would have been exactly the same - crowds can, and do lead to crushing, drunk or not.
And although some of you are determined to brush it under the carpet, they were the cause of the crush at the front of the stand. //
As I have pointed out - the mass rush was caused by crowd dynamics, not inebritation.
If a crowd, any crowd, is in a crush, and sees a piece of space, the entire crowd will push towards it - and that is what happened here.
Had the crowd been a bunch of pilgrims turning out to see the Pope, the result would have been exactly the same - crowds can, and do lead to crushing, drunk or not.
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