Film, Media & TV3 mins ago
Leave Campaign Promises
Irrespective of how you voted, does anyone share my concerns about the way the Leave campaign has backtracked on pledges regarding immigration and money for the NHS? Nigel Farage described the £350 million for the NHS as a 'mistake'. I am deeply concerned that people have been misled.
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The message on the side of the bus was obvious, at least to anyone capable of making a rational decision in the referendum. It still is obvious. Also obvious is that the total subscription to the EU would not have ever been promised to the NHS because there are other grants to cover and no rebate returned. But it suits some folk to lie in an effort to pretend the remain option should have won; despite all the remain exaggerations and doom & gloom fear stories. It's a nonsense, the people have spoken, and we need to move on not stick around making excuses and bellyaching.
If this was a General Election and ,say,Labour had won it.Would morons be demanding instantaneous changes and the immediate installation of manifesto promises For Funks Sake? For Chriss sake grow bloody up and realise a very long awaited referendum was won by our fair process of democracy. Something that is unheard of in countries across the world.If 6 months is not enough time to decide after weeks of debate on the TV then those morons do not deserve to vote .I knew what I wished for and I got it.
If it had gone the other way I would of been extremely disappointed but I hope my maturity allows me to say at worst, "S??t happens" and put it behind me. I despair and am sickened by some of my fellow countrymen/women. An infant school/kindergarten mentality," I want,I want,I want".
If it had gone the other way I would of been extremely disappointed but I hope my maturity allows me to say at worst, "S??t happens" and put it behind me. I despair and am sickened by some of my fellow countrymen/women. An infant school/kindergarten mentality," I want,I want,I want".
The reason Nigel Farage highlighted the 350 million nonsense, rather belatedly, was of course because it was a claim made by the 'official' leave campaign and not his. I find it extraordinary that even in his moment of apparent triumph, the man is so divisive that he can't wait to have a go even at his own side (!)
I still find it amazing how many people are managing to read "let's give our NHS the £350 million that we EU takes from us every week" as anything other than a promise, pledge, or some strong indication that we will be spending that £350 million on the NHS instead. It is clearly wrong on both counts (ie the £350 million is wrong, and that it will go to the NHS is wrong), and should never have been sold in that way, and it's utterly insane that people are defending it. It was massively dishonest and massively misleading, and everyone should know it. Obviously it's not the first time that politicians have been horribly misleading and dishonest, but it's still an example and has to be acknowledge as such.
Jim, // I still find it amazing how many people are managing to read "let's give our NHS the £350 million that we EU takes from us every week" as anything other than a promise, pledge, or some strong indication that we will be spending that £350 million on the NHS instead.//
I find it amazing that you read it as a promise, pledge, or some strong indication that we will be spending that £350 million on the NHS instead when it clearly couldn’t possibly have been any of those. You're smarting from the result of your referendum, but your conclusion here isn't smart.
I find it amazing that you read it as a promise, pledge, or some strong indication that we will be spending that £350 million on the NHS instead when it clearly couldn’t possibly have been any of those. You're smarting from the result of your referendum, but your conclusion here isn't smart.
God help us if we have to rely on today's young people in the future. We've gone from stiff upper lip to trembly bottom one in two generations.
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My response to the bus: -
"£350m a week? Billhooks!"
{a bit of googling}
"OK, so they mean £146m a week which we NEVER SEE AGAIN (short of travelling around EU) and EU CONTROL OVER the destinations WITHIN UK of where EU grant money is spent."
You cannot splurge £350m on the NHS without shafting all the EU-grant-funded projects which are, in general, in regions remote from London-centric Westminster politicians.
I have little understanding of why working Brits, who depend on things like the NHS, child benefit, working tax credits and so forth vote Tory at all. Farage is an ultra-Tory who would probably trade those things in for a(nother) top-rate tax-cut, in a heartbeat, if he had the power to do so. So why people were taken in by that bus/poster I cannot begin to imagine.
"£350m a week? Billhooks!"
{a bit of googling}
"OK, so they mean £146m a week which we NEVER SEE AGAIN (short of travelling around EU) and EU CONTROL OVER the destinations WITHIN UK of where EU grant money is spent."
You cannot splurge £350m on the NHS without shafting all the EU-grant-funded projects which are, in general, in regions remote from London-centric Westminster politicians.
I have little understanding of why working Brits, who depend on things like the NHS, child benefit, working tax credits and so forth vote Tory at all. Farage is an ultra-Tory who would probably trade those things in for a(nother) top-rate tax-cut, in a heartbeat, if he had the power to do so. So why people were taken in by that bus/poster I cannot begin to imagine.
Who is denying it happened, mikey?
Above, I'm saying that I knew it was a lie before it even appeared on the telly, because the same 350m figure had been bandied about on AB for WEEKS beforehand (chiming with Farrago pronouncements on TV).
We either have UKIP staffers resident here or just mouthpieces in lieu of them.
Above, I'm saying that I knew it was a lie before it even appeared on the telly, because the same 350m figure had been bandied about on AB for WEEKS beforehand (chiming with Farrago pronouncements on TV).
We either have UKIP staffers resident here or just mouthpieces in lieu of them.
@mikey
It's a supreme example of how advertising works on people. Other than quibbling over the figures, the message itself more or less worked on me. I read it as a pledge, despite it being no such thing.
As observed by Kathyan, above, the Leave campaign is not a political party, yet some part of the brain, on autopilot, read the whole show *as if* it wad an election campaign.
OR: - you could read it that Boris, in his capacity as a member of the Tory party was making promises on behalf of the (at the time) ongoing sitting government. We fill in the blanks about Cameron's defeat leading to his resignation, thus paving the way for Boris/other candidate fulfilling the promise, even before that played out for real.
Anyway, even though debaters, in this thread, have adequately proven that it was never a promise, in the first place, politicians need to become aware that messages they present in campaigns are *received*, by the Great British public, as pledges and promises and failure to deliver is part of why they are no longer trusted, in this day and age.
They need to communicate more clearly, in future. Say the words "this is not a promise" out loud, or print it in big letters under your slogan, if you're not prepared to follow through.
It's a supreme example of how advertising works on people. Other than quibbling over the figures, the message itself more or less worked on me. I read it as a pledge, despite it being no such thing.
As observed by Kathyan, above, the Leave campaign is not a political party, yet some part of the brain, on autopilot, read the whole show *as if* it wad an election campaign.
OR: - you could read it that Boris, in his capacity as a member of the Tory party was making promises on behalf of the (at the time) ongoing sitting government. We fill in the blanks about Cameron's defeat leading to his resignation, thus paving the way for Boris/other candidate fulfilling the promise, even before that played out for real.
Anyway, even though debaters, in this thread, have adequately proven that it was never a promise, in the first place, politicians need to become aware that messages they present in campaigns are *received*, by the Great British public, as pledges and promises and failure to deliver is part of why they are no longer trusted, in this day and age.
They need to communicate more clearly, in future. Say the words "this is not a promise" out loud, or print it in big letters under your slogan, if you're not prepared to follow through.
Hypognosis //They need to communicate more clearly, in future. Say the words "this is not a promise" out loud, or print it in big letters under your slogan//
For the hard of understanding that might be the answer – but I doubt it.
From Mikey’s links:
//Nigel Farage has admitted THE CALL to divert an extra £350 million a week to the NHS was a big mistake.
The Bus poster: “Let’s fund our NHS”
“Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week. [that from Jim’s link also]//
None of those lines include a promise. The ‘Leave’ camp wasn’t in a position to make promises. These nonsensical complaints are nothing but petulant dummy throwing by people who claim to champion democracy – but don’t if it disagrees with their own wishes.
And for the record I keep reading that young people voted “Remain”, but firstly I don’t know how anyone knows that, and secondly in my experience it didn’t happen. I do, however, know a few old grumps who are tripping over their bottom lips at the result.
For the hard of understanding that might be the answer – but I doubt it.
From Mikey’s links:
//Nigel Farage has admitted THE CALL to divert an extra £350 million a week to the NHS was a big mistake.
The Bus poster: “Let’s fund our NHS”
“Let’s give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week. [that from Jim’s link also]//
None of those lines include a promise. The ‘Leave’ camp wasn’t in a position to make promises. These nonsensical complaints are nothing but petulant dummy throwing by people who claim to champion democracy – but don’t if it disagrees with their own wishes.
And for the record I keep reading that young people voted “Remain”, but firstly I don’t know how anyone knows that, and secondly in my experience it didn’t happen. I do, however, know a few old grumps who are tripping over their bottom lips at the result.
Mikey, they are probably still denying it because it didn't happen and there has been no evidence, never mind plenty, that it did. The discussion seems to have moved on to whether folk who imagine a promise should expect their confusion to have been anticipated and a footnote added to try to clarify. I think this discussion may have reached a conclusion.
Og...the implications behind the posters and the bus was obvious to most people. But as I said, even Farage now admits that was a mistake.
It was just part of the scare tactics used by the BREXIT campaign, along with the millions of Turks that will soon be arriving.
But, then again BREXIT had to do something to counter all the advice given by experts.
It was just part of the scare tactics used by the BREXIT campaign, along with the millions of Turks that will soon be arriving.
But, then again BREXIT had to do something to counter all the advice given by experts.
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