When Does The Fight-Back Start?

[Khandro]

With so many innocent people killed in the space of a fortnight, now including an 86-year-old priest in his own church by Islamists, how far does this have to go before society starts to retaliate?
I suggest 'corporate responsibility'; that for each of these atrocities done in the name of Islam, 5 percent of mosques are closed down.

[vetuste_ennemi]

"I think you and I are best not debating".

What's the sound of one hand clapping?

[andy-hughes]

vetuste - //What's the sound of one hand clapping? //

It's a Zen philosophical riddle - I thought someone with your advised intelligence on matters religious would know something like that.

[jourdain2]

I've said before that Le Pen was on course for a win. This certainly helps the FN. It will also help Trump. I'm at a loss as to what to think may happen in future at the moment.

For now, could we just consider that a very old man, standing in for someone else and doing his duty, has been slaughtered in the very place in which he should feel safe and that (probably elderly) women have also been attacked? I would like to question why this tiny congregation was suddenly a target. It appears that at least one of the attackers was in touch with Daesh, so can we fairly assume that Christians (of whatever denomination) are now a target?

My response is to wear a cross more often and to do it more openly (it's an optional thing at the moment for me and everyone I know and many Christians don't even own one)- but there will be a drum of ground white pepper in my handbag.

[vetuste_ennemi]

:-)

[sp1814]

It's almost inevitable that there will be some sort of response to these attacks. And I believe that this is what radicalised Muslims want. They do not want peaceful coexistence, but a holy war.

Our choice is clear, but extremely conflicted.

I have yet to see anything approaching a) a sensible plan for both Europe / the Middle East / Syria / Afghanistan / Iraq or b) a sensible/workable plan to tackle home-grown terrorism.

Exactly how do you counter lone wolf attacks?

My guess is that no-one really knows.

[Khandro]

To behead an elderly priest, and injure and terrorise old women in the belief that you will, if shot, go straight to heaven, and it may be comforting to think that you have 70 virgins waiting for you. But you might think again if it automatically triggered the loss of all benefits for your parents and family members, and their dispossession (applies to home-grown terrorists only) of their homes, - the robust response of the Israelis.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// From the Crusades onwards, this has been going on, ///

And this one in the History section.

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - //To behead an elderly priest, and injure and terrorise old women in the belief that you will, if shot, go straight to heaven, and it may be comforting to think that you have 70 virgins waiting for you. But you might think again if it automatically triggered the loss of all benefits for your parents and family members, and their dispossession (applies to home-grown terrorists only) of their homes, - the robust response of the Israelis. //

Your premise requires a rational mind that thinks outside itself, reasons, and cares for anyone else on the planet - none of which are the mind set of the common-or-garden terrorist.

[sp1814]

Khandro

I would be extremely surprised if any radicalised youth would step back from terrorism due to the fear that their families may lose benefits (assuming they are on benefits in the first place).

And the loss of their homes?

How would that work exactly?

I can't work it out.

Step me through the legal process. Are you saying that the State would take possession of the homes of terrorists and repatriate them? Would this include members of the family would have (eg.) British passports?

And by immediate family, are you talking about mum, dad, brothers and sisters?

What if the sibling are at university and not living at home?

What if MI5 or the intelligence services suspected that the radicalising influence was a cousin or uncle?

Would immediate family extend outwards?

And what happens to the property once the family had been chucked? Does it then become property of the State?

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// Isis want power, and control, and destruction - they are not true Muslims, but they use that pretence to theoretically explain their crimes. ///

And you truly believe that Islam has no wish to conquer the World?

They have wanted the spread of Islam, long before ISIS was ever formed.

http://jewtubetv.jewfacts.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/The-Secret-Three-Stages-of-Islam-That-Muslims-Use-in-Order-to-Conquer-The-World.png

[whiskeryron]

I'll get my coat.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //But you might think again if it automatically triggered the loss of all benefits for your parents and family members//

I don't believe it would make a difference. To its adherents dying and suffering for the cause is worthy. Lives are expendable.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// I am off to flagellate myself for thinking I could express an opinion without it being judged and condemned. ///

No, no before you fetch blood Andy, don't take things so seriously, no one has judged or condemned your opinion, it was only a suggestion for a better placement.

[Khandro]

sp; yes to all those things (I think), it's known as 'corporate responsibility', has gone on throughout history and it tends to work. All your civil rights stuff does not apply in times of war, (which you won't remember) it is a nicety only of peace, unfortunately.

[jambutty]

I wish we could nuke them off the face of the earth !! I also wish we could close all mosques in Britain - controversial I know, but it's my opinion.

[andy-hughes]

jambutty - //I wish we could nuke them off the face of the earth !! I also wish we could close all mosques in Britain - controversial I know, but it's my opinion. //

I feel the same about alcohol and pubs - we all have our bugbears.

[fiction-factory]

The mosques I know don't look anything like a mosque- just an old pub and an old church sunday school room. I doubt there is a central register but I suppose if a 'report a mosque' hotline were set up it would be flooded with calls. Of course closing the buildings will only inconvenience Islamists or Moslems and probably will generate more ill will and lead to increased friction and terrorism.

[anotheoldgit]

/// The mosques I know don't look anything like a mosque- just an old pub ///

Blimey that puts a whole new meaning to "Those Nazis bombed our fish shop".

[jourdain2]

sp1814. Just for information - your post at 15.58. Not far from us in France lived a crooked builder (British) who did all his work 'on the black'.

Someone mentioned him to the gendarmes. They watched him loading up with building supplies at the local 'Bricomarche', followed him home and asked what he needed it all for. His reply was that it was for a project on his own land to improve his house.

They went away, but continued to watch.
When satisfied as to what he was up to they went to his house, marched him to his bank and closed his account - giving the gendarmes access. They took his passport and all UK bank cards and gave him one week to be ready to leave

He was then driven to a ferry (wife as well, by the way) and put on as a foot passenger and passports returned, but with a stamp on them. I can't remember if they gave him his English bank card back or not. His house and his car were both forfeit and sold to benefit the authorities.

This was probably about 2007 and was widely publicised to discourage others from trying to dodge taxes. Hope that helps with your question about what the State could do. :)

[keyplus90]

Why not compare the total number of the people killed since the war on terror started and see if the Muslims are in majority who have been killed or the Non-Muslims (including Christians, Hindu, Sikh, Atheist and everyone else)? And then close one mosque for any 100 people killed by a known Muslim and close one Church for anyone who was Christian. Atheists do not have mosque or Church so kill 5 of them instead.

And then why not look for the people responsible for this from either side and then punish them. I would say start with Blair and Bush and you wouldn't go wrong.