President Donald Trump Says He Believes Waterboarding Works

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753000

Trump wants to bring back torture, despite Congress voting overwhelmingly to ban it recently. He also wants to expand America's use of keeping people in prison abroad, without charge or trial.

America....land of the free !

[ummmm]

You'd have to be a sadist to torture people.

[andy-hughes]

Apparently ummm, you just have to understand 'What is necessary.'

I am sure Adolf Hitler had a similarly detached and un-human mind-set.

I like to think we have moved on somewhat, and we can look at what is actually desirable, rather than excusing barbarity by referring to it as 'necessary'.

Anyone up for shoe-horning 'collateral damage' into the argument?

[Garaman]

I am not sure that the argument about what you would do if you family were involved stands up. If my family were hostages say I would the authorities to give the terrorists whatever they wanted to get them back; that wouldn’t mean it was the right thing to do though.

As to whether torture is justifiable, that is another question. I want to be against it on principle but being honest I could see me turning a blind eye in extreme cases.

[ummmm]

I wonder how many of the people who think torture is acceptable could actually administer it.

[Garaman]

'want' missing after 'would', sorry.

[andy-hughes]

Garaman, I can understand anyone who would 'turn a blind eye' - what I cannot stomach is people who talk about torture as though they tut and shake their heads as though it's just one of those nasty parts of life like someone having to empty bins and operate sewage systems.

I think it is morally repellent to justify pain and suffering to another human being because it is deemed 'necessary' and the absence of humanity needed to be trained (Can you believe that people train people to hurt people for a living?) to do this is something that should have been jettisoned as unfit to have a place in a morally aware society.

That is exactly what America did, and now their new President wants to bring it back. Of course, he also has the luxury of treating it as 'necessary' - no splashes on his natty suit from waterboarding a terrorist suspect any time soon.

[andy-hughes]

divebuddy - ////We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us.// [Edmund Burke, 1729 - 1797] //

The world in the 1700's was a seriously different place from the world in 2017.

You could be hung for stealing a sheep, and we sent children into mills and down mines and up chimneys.

Shall we take it as given that we have moved on from those days?

I think we should.

[-Talbot-]

I am sure Adolf Hitler had a similarly detached and un-human mind-set.



Care to explain your reasoning for that comment, andy?

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - // am sure Adolf Hitler had a similarly detached and un-human mind-set.

Care to explain your reasoning for that comment, andy? //

Certainly - please see my post at 10:14-ish -

//The doctrine is really easy, if you are in a position that you have to get as much information as possible to protect you men or prevent an act of terrorism you do what you have to. //

I could find you a similar justification for every single abhorrant immoral and illegal act perpetrated on one human being by another.

But that does not make the justification valid - it only makes it what you tell yourself to justify what you have done.

Remember Eichmann, when questioned about the gas chambers/ His response ' They were only Jews ...'.

Anyone can convince themselves that anything they do has a valid reason that makes it worthwhile - but somebody somewhere has to bring in a sense of humanity and reality.

The general consensus is that civilised forward-thinking compassionate societies do not torture people. I am fine with that. //

You can say it's necessary - but that does not mean that excuses you from what you are doing - it just means you get to sleep soundly at night.

Moral superiority makes a comfortable duvet to wrap around your mind in the small hours, when the difficult questions start prodding your conscience.

[andy-hughes]

divebuddy - //Andy. One of the few constants across time is human nature. It hasn't really changed at all. That famous quote has been paraphrased many times by famous/influential people. Orwell and Churchill for instance. It is as true today as it was when Burke said it. //

If I dig a little, I am sure I can find the quote where Adolf Hitler decided that annihilation of the Jewish population of Europe would be an aid to current economical difficulties.

Just because someone said it does not automatically mean it was right either then, or now.

[mikey4444]

talbot....."I am sure Adolf Hitler had a similarly detached and un-human mind-set"

I can explain that if your like ! Hitler was the head of an organisation that waged war all over Europe and North Africa. On his orders, millions of people were rounded up and slaughtered in the gas chambers.

I guess that being similarly detached and un-human would be a key part in allowing that to happen, and I am surprised that you had to ask the question in the first place.

[Khandro]

ummm; //I wonder how many of the people who think torture is acceptable could actually administer it. //

And I wonder how many people who enjoy a steak could slaughter a cow.

[mikey4444]

Khandro....was that a serious point to make ?

[Ninefingers]

I think Divebuddy that they are trying to brand all inhumaity in the same bag, mind you comparison of what Hitler did and what trump is up to is a link I can't logically make either.

[-Talbot-]

mikey4444
Question Author
talbot....."I am sure Adolf Hitler had a similarly detached and un-human mind-set"

I can explain that if your like ! Hitler was the head of an organisation that waged war all over Europe and North Africa. On his orders, millions of people were rounded up and slaughtered in the gas chambers.

I guess that being similarly detached and un-human would be a key part in allowing that to happen, and I am surprised that you had to ask the question in the first place.



BONKERS!

[Khandro]

Actually ummmm, when I come to think about it, if my mother, wife and child had been intentionally mown down and killed at a Christmas market by a worthless piece of ####, I think I would be able to assist in seeing he underwent sleep deprivation or more, to get information on his associates.