President Donald Trump Says He Believes Waterboarding Works

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38753000

Trump wants to bring back torture, despite Congress voting overwhelmingly to ban it recently. He also wants to expand America's use of keeping people in prison abroad, without charge or trial.

America....land of the free !

[andy-hughes]

Jacdaw33 - //The only reason for the eradication of Trump and UKIP is that some posters will have to find some other target for their ponderous quotidinial garbage. //

I can only speak personally, but I have never suggested the 'eradication' or President Trump, and I have not mentioned UKIP at all.

Nice word quotidinial - certainly no sign of pusillanimousness from you!

[-Talbot-]

Some of us like to pontificate andy, some of us just keep it simple.



I think some people have clearly lost the plot and all grasp on reality since DT became president..

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - //Some of us like to pontificate andy, some of us just keep it simple. //

I am all for simple - not so keen on simplistic - there is a difference, which you appear not to grasp.

// I think some people have clearly lost the plot and all grasp on reality since DT became president.. //

No problem - thinking is free.

[-Talbot-]

ok Joey

[andy-hughes]

divebuddy - //Andy. I noticed that you didn't respond to the serious point I made (it's a price worth paying). But were happy to make totally irrelevant and childish comments about who would and who wouldn't carry out the torture. //

I think my point about who does the torturing is absolutely pertinent, and not childish at all - I stand by my observation that you and people who think like you - including Mr Trump - are delighted to embrace torture as an abstract concept, as long as you don't have to step in the room and pick up the bucket.

And to address your point that it's 'a price worth paying' -

No, it's not.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - //ok Joey //

?

[Ninefingers]

I believe that I could have done what was demanded had that been part of my role, that side of it was never my job but just the same if i'd been driving a nuclear Sub and ordered to fire my missiles or flying east with a Vulcan bomber strapped to my back to drop a Strategic nuclear device over eastern Europe I believe now as I did then that I would have carried my orders out, I know some that wouldn't and didn't.

If you take a role in the forces you accept the responsibilities for that role whatever that might be.

[Jackdaw33]

Actually I made a typo. It should have read 'quotidinal'

By the way, the noun is pusillaminity, not the word you have just made up.

[andy-hughes]

Ninefingers - I am happy to accept that as an ex-member of the military, you have a different mind-set to someone like me who does not believe in killing people professionally, so would not be suitable for consideration.

But I still wonder if, even as a man who has agreed to obey orders from a superior, you really would be capable of inflicting pain and suffering on another human being.

But this is academic - so I am obviously happy to accept what you say at face value, and we are never going to have to put that notion to the test.

I think you would agree that our personal exchange of views has gone as far as it can today.

We have different opinions, and it has been stimulating to explore them - even though we remain at our respective opposite end of the moral question.

Thank you for your time and trouble - see you again on another thread I am sure.

[andy-hughes]

jackdaw - //Actually I made a typo. It should have read 'quotidinal'

By the way, the noun is pusillaminity, not the word you have just made up. //

Thank you - every day is a school day.

[Mamyalynne]

'pusillanimity'

[Ninefingers]

//We have different opinions, and it has been stimulating to explore them - even though we remain at our respective opposite end of the moral question. //

I'm not sure we are, the difference is the job and mindset as you point out but I still find the thought of torture of any sort abhorrent but as Khandro and other have said in specific scenarios it can become necessary, that's my point.

[Jackdaw33]

Thank you Mayma for correcting another typo.

[Peter Pedant]

// ... many people think it is acceptable to torture terrorists. If (it) can prevent a future terrorist attack (it) will be saving real people from being killed/maimed in real life. It's a price worth paying.//

and if it doesnt - what the hell - it wasnt me they were torturing and so paying the price ....

yes it is a serious point repeated a few times and so the refutation is worth repeating as well

it doesnt work - tortured people will tell you whatever you want to hear
During the war - the French used to beat up recently captured Germans prisoner ( whoops ! well it was 1940) - and ze Fransh colonel exclaimed " if this treatment saves one french life then it is worth it "
and the British declined to abuse the prisoners and left them to it (1940)


I think I have read Paul Hill's biog ( guildford non bomber ) and yes I remember that he wrote that you say anything to make it stop

ans what about british servicement torturing other british servicemen ( spies) to make them confess
yes Bivebuddy it really did work ! ( they confessed )

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/29/world/court-in-british-espionage-trial-acquits-last-of-seven-defendants.html

and were acquitted

it made the house of commons

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1985/oct/29/cyprus-service-men-trial

and those without a really dairty mind will NOT recall

that the accused men admitted they had ( whilst not attending splash parties ) passed secrets to a North Vietnamese Madam running a brothel in Cyprus

Day Seven of the trial - she turned up from North Vietnam and appeared in the box and said ( vietenamese of course ) Arrest me as a spy ! Arrest me - I am here and a soviet agent ! where is your evidence that I am a spy - there is none !"

case collapsed - and here we have Divebuddy saying torture works ......

[Peter Pedant]

// jackdaw - //Actually I made a typo. It should have read 'quotidinal' //

o I thought matutinal was better
the drivel seems to get less around midday

[vetuste_ennemi]

//It was furthermore a gross distortion to claim that Trump supported torture. Yes, he said he would entertain the practice of waterboarding and yes, he thought it did work. But this is what he said in context:

“ ‘I wanna do everything within the bounds of what you’re allowed to do legally. But do I feel it works? Absolutely I feel it works. Have I spoken to people at the top levels and people that have seen it work? I haven’t seen it work. But I think it works. Have I spoken to people that feel strongly about it? Absolutely.’
DAVID MUIR: So, you’d be okay with it as …
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I wanna keep …
DAVID MUIR: … president?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: … no, I wanna — I will rely on General Mattis. And I’m gonna rely on those two people and others. And if they don’t wanna do it, it’s 100 percent okay with me. Do I think it works? Absolutely.’”//

This is an extract from an article by the fragrant Melanie Phillips entitled "The Media War against Donald Trump".

The full article can be found here:

http://melaniephillips.com/media-war-donald-trump/

[Khandro]

Yeah, or do you also support those 'sneaky, dirty rats'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C7Z3B2MhK0