Stephen Lawrence Detectives Will Not...
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President Donald Trump Says He Believes Waterboarding Works
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Trump wants to bring back torture, despite Congress voting overwhelmingly to ban it recently. He also wants to expand America's use of keeping people in prison abroad, without charge or trial.
America....land of the free !
Trump wants to bring back torture, despite Congress voting overwhelmingly to ban it recently. He also wants to expand America's use of keeping people in prison abroad, without charge or trial.
America....land of the free !
Answers
He's not listening. I read 'Stolen Years' by Paul Hill, one of the Guildford four, and they admitted things they didn't do because of torture and sleep deprivation. Trumps attitude is scary.
08:33 Thu 26th Jan 2017
I agree, Khandro, but that's seeking revenge, and I understand that I really do. Doing it as a matter of course is completely different.
I also suspected someone would mention meat eating and killing animals. They can't be compared, imo, animals are not being tortured for hours on end and sleep deprived.
I also suspected someone would mention meat eating and killing animals. They can't be compared, imo, animals are not being tortured for hours on end and sleep deprived.
Khandro - //ummm; //I wonder how many of the people who think torture is acceptable could actually administer it. //
And I wonder how many people who enjoy a steak could slaughter a cow.//
That is a separate moral argument.
If you want to start a debate about the morality of eating meat, then you need a separate thread in another section - not to try and divert the debate on here about torture.
And I wonder how many people who enjoy a steak could slaughter a cow.//
That is a separate moral argument.
If you want to start a debate about the morality of eating meat, then you need a separate thread in another section - not to try and divert the debate on here about torture.
-- answer removed --
Ninefingers - //I think Divebuddy that they are trying to brand all inhumaity in the same bag, mind you comparison of what Hitler did and what trump is up to is a link I can't logically make either. //
I can only speak for myself, not 'they'.
I remember watching a German camp guard in his eighties being interviewed about his actions at Belsen. He recalled taking two children, a boy and a girl to join the queue for the gas chambers. He said that their faces had haunted his sleep every night from then to now, and he expected never to be free of that torment. He then said, if those two children were the only people he had ever taken to be murdered, that would be two people too many. And then he started to cry.
The message - and the link with Hitler - is extremely simple.
In order to murder sic million Jews, or torture one terror suspect, you don't need to concern yourself with the numbers, you just have to make sure that your sense of human decency has been completely eliminated. The rest becomes easy. One Jew, two, six million - the mind-set works for all of that.
Sleep deprivation, electrodes, pliars - the mind-set works for all of that.
As I have said, the easiest way to avoid that horrible morally bankrupt road, is not to take the first step along it. Mr Trump has indicated that he is ready to step right now.
I can only speak for myself, not 'they'.
I remember watching a German camp guard in his eighties being interviewed about his actions at Belsen. He recalled taking two children, a boy and a girl to join the queue for the gas chambers. He said that their faces had haunted his sleep every night from then to now, and he expected never to be free of that torment. He then said, if those two children were the only people he had ever taken to be murdered, that would be two people too many. And then he started to cry.
The message - and the link with Hitler - is extremely simple.
In order to murder sic million Jews, or torture one terror suspect, you don't need to concern yourself with the numbers, you just have to make sure that your sense of human decency has been completely eliminated. The rest becomes easy. One Jew, two, six million - the mind-set works for all of that.
Sleep deprivation, electrodes, pliars - the mind-set works for all of that.
As I have said, the easiest way to avoid that horrible morally bankrupt road, is not to take the first step along it. Mr Trump has indicated that he is ready to step right now.
SnookerPlayer - //Can't see a problem using torture against those who believe stoning people, chucking folk of buildings, cutting heads off, burning people alive. //
No problem then.
You can be as inhuman and immoral as them, and then it becomes a peeing contest - who can visit the worst atrocities on the other. They are absolutely fine with that - it's the way they think.
I can't speak for you - but it's not the way I think.
No problem then.
You can be as inhuman and immoral as them, and then it becomes a peeing contest - who can visit the worst atrocities on the other. They are absolutely fine with that - it's the way they think.
I can't speak for you - but it's not the way I think.
-- answer removed --
divebuddy - //But Trump isn't contemplating taking a first step, is he. He's talking about something the Americans have been doing for years. And in all probability are still doing abroad. //
Oh, that's alright then! Because The West has never stopped torturing people, that's an excellent reason to carry on and expand the practice!
// Perhaps we should go back to the good old days. Take two people up in a helicopter. Invite them to talk. If they won't, throw one of them out to encourage the other one. //
You've been watching too many thrillers. This is real life with real people.
Oh, that's alright then! Because The West has never stopped torturing people, that's an excellent reason to carry on and expand the practice!
// Perhaps we should go back to the good old days. Take two people up in a helicopter. Invite them to talk. If they won't, throw one of them out to encourage the other one. //
You've been watching too many thrillers. This is real life with real people.
-- answer removed --
divebuddy - ////This is real life with real people. //
And that is exactly why many people think it is acceptable to torture terrorists. If they can prevent a future terrorist attack they will be saving real people from being killed/maimed in real life. It's a price worth paying. //
As long as it's not you who has to do the torturing.
Please save yourself the time and trouble of saying that you would do it if called upon, that will save me the time and trouble of saying that I don't believe you.
And that is exactly why many people think it is acceptable to torture terrorists. If they can prevent a future terrorist attack they will be saving real people from being killed/maimed in real life. It's a price worth paying. //
As long as it's not you who has to do the torturing.
Please save yourself the time and trouble of saying that you would do it if called upon, that will save me the time and trouble of saying that I don't believe you.
^^^ Amen to that Divebuddy
//Oh, that's alright then! Because The West has never stopped torturing people, that's an excellent reason to carry on and expand the practice! //
No it didnt' stop trying to gain information by coersion, persuasion or what ever you want to call it. It's part of the job the lilly livered lefties under Blair sent our soldiers to do.
// Perhaps we should go back to the good old days. Take two people up in a helicopter. Invite them to talk. If they won't, throw one of them out to encourage the other one. //
//You've been watching too many thrillers. This is real life with real people.// No they were real, one of the extreme methods of getting information during the Vietnam War, thrillers may dramatise but it was real.
The whole message of this entire thread is simple while it's abhorrent in any form the gathering of information through coersion and persuasion happens all the time, Is it acceptable, no not really but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen if the scenario is deemed to merit it.
Only other option is take the terrorist out to tea, give them a nice 4 bed house in the burbs make sure they have everything they need and £26000 a year plus enough for at least two holidays a year. Oh hang on!
//Oh, that's alright then! Because The West has never stopped torturing people, that's an excellent reason to carry on and expand the practice! //
No it didnt' stop trying to gain information by coersion, persuasion or what ever you want to call it. It's part of the job the lilly livered lefties under Blair sent our soldiers to do.
// Perhaps we should go back to the good old days. Take two people up in a helicopter. Invite them to talk. If they won't, throw one of them out to encourage the other one. //
//You've been watching too many thrillers. This is real life with real people.// No they were real, one of the extreme methods of getting information during the Vietnam War, thrillers may dramatise but it was real.
The whole message of this entire thread is simple while it's abhorrent in any form the gathering of information through coersion and persuasion happens all the time, Is it acceptable, no not really but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen if the scenario is deemed to merit it.
Only other option is take the terrorist out to tea, give them a nice 4 bed house in the burbs make sure they have everything they need and £26000 a year plus enough for at least two holidays a year. Oh hang on!
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