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It was reported that they shouted 'Allahu Akbar' as they were sent down, should they have been returned and had their sentences increased?
It was reported that they shouted 'Allahu Akbar' as they were sent down, should they have been returned and had their sentences increased?
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TTT - //"But blaming the religion for death is like blaming a gun - it's down to what is done with it that is the issue. " - well andy we seek to limit guns on the streets, perhaps we should try the same with religion(tic)//
By 'we', I assume you mean the UK, since America is clearly not included in that notion.
But yes, I entirely agree - religion is the cause of the majority of conflicts in the world, I would ban it tomorrow.
By 'we', I assume you mean the UK, since America is clearly not included in that notion.
But yes, I entirely agree - religion is the cause of the majority of conflicts in the world, I would ban it tomorrow.
Naomi - //Straight question. Which bits do you think are twisted? //
Since the twisting is in the minds of the twister, then anything and everything is up for twisting.
Any religious text you can think of, for any faith, big or small, can be twisted by anyone reading it to make it fit what they want to do, and that ranges from the very best to the very worst.
The problem with religion is not the texts, it's the human nature that makes them read the way they want - and you will never ever solve that.
Depending on your view, you may suggest that the Koran is more easily twisted because its basic texts are pretty dodgy to start with, but then if you examine the bible, you soon find that it has its own set of glories waiting to be discovered.
As someone free of the burdens of faith, and trying to make sense of all this nonsense, I simply wish that others would recognise the bad behaviours in their own communities - and yes, I do hold Muslims up as more culpable in that area. But that does not mean that nominal Christians are exempt, and are in no position to cast the proverbial first stone.
Since the twisting is in the minds of the twister, then anything and everything is up for twisting.
Any religious text you can think of, for any faith, big or small, can be twisted by anyone reading it to make it fit what they want to do, and that ranges from the very best to the very worst.
The problem with religion is not the texts, it's the human nature that makes them read the way they want - and you will never ever solve that.
Depending on your view, you may suggest that the Koran is more easily twisted because its basic texts are pretty dodgy to start with, but then if you examine the bible, you soon find that it has its own set of glories waiting to be discovered.
As someone free of the burdens of faith, and trying to make sense of all this nonsense, I simply wish that others would recognise the bad behaviours in their own communities - and yes, I do hold Muslims up as more culpable in that area. But that does not mean that nominal Christians are exempt, and are in no position to cast the proverbial first stone.
Naomi - //andy-hughes, ok, you don't know. //
Actually - I do know -
// Since the twisting is in the minds of the twister, then anything and everything is up for twisting.
Any religious text you can think of, for any faith, big or small, can be twisted by anyone reading it to make it fit what they want to do, and that ranges from the very best to the very worst. //
Actually - I do know -
// Since the twisting is in the minds of the twister, then anything and everything is up for twisting.
Any religious text you can think of, for any faith, big or small, can be twisted by anyone reading it to make it fit what they want to do, and that ranges from the very best to the very worst. //
Let's forget about interpretation of texts and examine instead the actual behaviour of Mohammed, seen by Muslims as the perfect model of conduct, himself. I'll quote a few facts about the Prophet derived from Islamic sources which will be accepted by EVERY mainstream Muslim authority:
Mohammed consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine years old;
Mohammed and his companions had many wives;
Mohammed conducted raids and battles in which prisoners were taken to be distributed among the Muslim soldiers as slaves, or held for ransom;
Mohammed and his followers had sex with their female slaves.
That's a general context for suggesting how Muslims, who have fastidious attitudes about the proper treatment of Muslim women (see "Zina" in Wiki) might have a very different view about theappropriate treatment of non-Muslim women.
Here is a graphic account from one of the most esteemed collection of Mohammed's sayings by its compiler Sahih (i.e. Trusted) Muslim:
"Chapter: Al-Azl (incomplete sexual intercourse): Coitus Interruptus.
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."..
The thing which struck a non-Muslims like me when I read this hadith (there are even worse things in the biographies of the Prophet) is that the author showed no sense that he thought this behaviour might be wrong, nor that other people might think. And the biggest absence of all: the least compassion for its victims.
Mohammed consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine years old;
Mohammed and his companions had many wives;
Mohammed conducted raids and battles in which prisoners were taken to be distributed among the Muslim soldiers as slaves, or held for ransom;
Mohammed and his followers had sex with their female slaves.
That's a general context for suggesting how Muslims, who have fastidious attitudes about the proper treatment of Muslim women (see "Zina" in Wiki) might have a very different view about theappropriate treatment of non-Muslim women.
Here is a graphic account from one of the most esteemed collection of Mohammed's sayings by its compiler Sahih (i.e. Trusted) Muslim:
"Chapter: Al-Azl (incomplete sexual intercourse): Coitus Interruptus.
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."..
The thing which struck a non-Muslims like me when I read this hadith (there are even worse things in the biographies of the Prophet) is that the author showed no sense that he thought this behaviour might be wrong, nor that other people might think. And the biggest absence of all: the least compassion for its victims.
vetusti - If you are looking for someone writing about any faith, to excuse its shortcomings, then you must know you are looking in the wrong place.
People revere their religious leaders, from the top to the bottom, that is how religion works, and I am sure you don't need me to point that out.
If you take religion as a concept, you will find people who can back to wazoo, and people who can condemn it with similar effort and time spent so to do.
Personally, it matters not one jot, I have no faith, and I waste no time agonising over the machinations of people who do - and personally, I believe my life is much better for it.
I can think of hundreds of ways better to use my time than giving brain room to the nonsense that is religion, and I do wonder about the attitudes of people who do spend hours researching, writing, talking and thinking about it, and wonder if they could not better occupy their time as well - since religion is clearly going round in circles, as it has done since primitive man worshiped the sun.
Why not spend your time better - and let's face it, time spent doing anything at all other than on religion, is time better spent.
People revere their religious leaders, from the top to the bottom, that is how religion works, and I am sure you don't need me to point that out.
If you take religion as a concept, you will find people who can back to wazoo, and people who can condemn it with similar effort and time spent so to do.
Personally, it matters not one jot, I have no faith, and I waste no time agonising over the machinations of people who do - and personally, I believe my life is much better for it.
I can think of hundreds of ways better to use my time than giving brain room to the nonsense that is religion, and I do wonder about the attitudes of people who do spend hours researching, writing, talking and thinking about it, and wonder if they could not better occupy their time as well - since religion is clearly going round in circles, as it has done since primitive man worshiped the sun.
Why not spend your time better - and let's face it, time spent doing anything at all other than on religion, is time better spent.
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