Ladies Only Swimming?

[mushroom25]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223641/Hampstead-ladies-say-swimming-pond-not-gender-fluid.html

since it's becoming increasingly accepted that gender is less about chromosomes, appearance or reproductive ability but more a matter of state of mind not necessarily requiring reassignment intervention (and the gender recognition act 2004 is likely to be amended to reflect this), are the "X-X" denizens of the Kenwood Ladies Pond Association being a tad unreasonable?

[pixie374]

I know, sp. I am objecting to the "treatment" of it.

[sp1814]

pixie374

And sometimes it can go wrong.

Hence gender dymorphia.

[pixie374]

It actually can't. It's society that tells people they are wrong. Once we accept people for how they genuinely are, we will be partway there.

[Peter Pedant]

Health minister has just announced short term reintroduction of mixed sex wards to get over the Jan bed shortage....

[Kromovaracun]

I think I can help, sp.

Naomi - if you'd be so kind, would you mind copy-pasting the list below and just putting an 'x' in the brackets next to the scenarios you, personally object to?

[ ] a person who was born male, but undertook gender reassignment, and is now indistinguishable from a born female, using the womens' bathroom while you (or any other women) are in it. They do not bother you or even speak to you.

[ ] a person who was born male, but in the process of undertaking gender reassignment (which takes a few years), using the womens' bathroom while you (or any other women) are in it. They do not bother you or even speak to you.

[ ] a person who was born male, and is not in the process of undertaking gender reassignment, using the womens' bathroom while you are in it because the gents is out of order and he really needs the loo. He perhaps explains his predicament, but otherwise doesn't bother you.

[ ] a person who was born male, and is not in the process of gender reassignment, using the womens' bathroom specifically to lech on and harass the women who are in there.

How's that?

[naomi24]

sp. //Is your position that trans women should not be allowed to use female facilities? //

Yes..... and perhaps now you'll answer my question.

[sp1814]

pixie374

I agree - "Once we accept people for how they genuinely are".

Like those who are trans.

Trans women and trans men.

I believe them when they say who they are.

I believe that the medical profession has recognised the condition.

I believe that anyone who voluntarily puts themselves through years of painful surgery to correct their gender identity needs societal support, rather than putting them into the same bracket as pervs, creeps and weirdos.

[naomi24]

Krom, curious that of those you’ve listed only the men who are not in the process of gender reassignment are not presumed to be bothering me. What about the ones who might – you know the ones SP mentioned – the creeps, the weirdos and the pervs?

And since you mentioned children, there is no way I’d allow a child to go alone to use facilities that were available to men – transgender or not.

[sp1814]

How are you to know the difference?

Easy.

If a creepy bloke was to go to the lengths of dressing as a woman in order to use a female changing room to get his rocks off, it would be noticeable, y'know...from the erection..

[naomi24]

^Pathetic.

[Kromovaracun]

//Krom, curious that of those you’ve listed only the men who are not in the process of gender reassignment are not presumed to be bothering me.//

Well, yes, it's a given that you'd naturally object to anyone who was bothering you regardless of whether or not they were transitioning. I don't think I need to ask you whether you'd object to a transgender person bothering you, because you obviously would. I think the thing sp wants to know is if you object to transgender people being in the same bathroom as you per se, regardless of their behaviour or whether you know they are there or not.

[naomi24]

Krom, I've answered SP's question.

[Kromovaracun]

It's a cross on the first box, then? You object to a transgender person using the womens' bathroom even if they do nothing to bother you and you cannot even tell that they are transgender?

[naomi24]

Yes.

[Kromovaracun]

OK. In that case I suppose any transgender people reading will just have to find some way to carry on with their lives without your approval, then...

[douglas9401]

"I believe that anyone who voluntarily puts themselves through years of painful surgery to correct their gender identity needs societal support, rather than putting them into the same bracket as pervs, creeps and weirdos."

I know little or nothing of this other than what's on here and in the papers but

Has anyone tried sorting out issues in the mind rather than injecting doses of powerful drugs and building penises and vaginas out of whatever's deemed redundant?
It's a powerful thing the brain, maybe with proper therapy all this toilet stuff could be avoided.

[naomi24]

Krom, their problems are not mine and nor should they be. I’m not interested in their lives.

[Peter Pedant]

o god 220 answers
and the flood of endless goop shows no signs of abating

[douglas9401]

It's just the gender fluid thickening mate.

[mushroom25]

sorry to be picky -

but its Gender Dysphoria, not Dysmorphia.