Ladies Only Swimming?

[mushroom25]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223641/Hampstead-ladies-say-swimming-pond-not-gender-fluid.html

since it's becoming increasingly accepted that gender is less about chromosomes, appearance or reproductive ability but more a matter of state of mind not necessarily requiring reassignment intervention (and the gender recognition act 2004 is likely to be amended to reflect this), are the "X-X" denizens of the Kenwood Ladies Pond Association being a tad unreasonable?

[sp1814]

naomi24

What is it that you object to anyway?

Is it trans women using female changing rooms and toilets?

Is it men who have not completed the transition?

Or is it something else?

[naomi24]

Krom, in normal circumstances when I venture outside my house the people I encounter are irrelevant to me. Being obliged to share changing facilities and toilets with men is not irrelevant to me.

[naomi24]

sp, why ask when you've been told?

[sp1814]

naomi24

So your issue is with trans women.

Even if they look exactly like women and use the facilities the same way as you do - you have an issue with that.

I just want to make sure I understand your point of view.

It's not just the creeps, weirdos and pervs, it extends to trans women who many of us wouldn't even clock had been born male.

Is that right?

[naomi24]

sp, I don't which of them is a creep or a weirdo or a perv. Do you?

[pixie374]

They are not women, sp. However many times you repeat it , it is just factually wrong.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Yes it's easy.

In a mens toilet it will be the man who stands at the urinals for five minutes looks at other men's penises.

Now, back to you.

What is it that you object to?

Is it trans women using female changing rooms and toilets?

Is it men who have not completed the transition?

Or is it something else?

[Kromovaracun]

How do you know that pixie? If they've obtained gender recognition, the law disagrees with you.

[Mamyalynne]

In truth anyone can be a creep or a weirdo or a perv, that has always been the case.

Man,Woman or Trans.

[pixie374]

The law can say what it likes! We all know it doesn't work that way.

[naomi24]

sp, what is wrong with you? Why are you repeating yourself?

[pixie374]

Gender recognition means nothing. We are talking about sex

[Kromovaracun]

//Gender recognition means nothing. We are talking about sex//

Ah, so sex and gender are indeed different things then?

Splendid.

So it is therefore possible to have a gender that does not correspond to one's biological sex.

A.... 'trans' gender, if you will.

I think I'm onto something here. Now we have a nice clear word to describe people who are in that situation.

[jourdain2]

I've followed all this with interest. Sorry, to other thinkers, but these poor people are not - and never can be - proper women. I don't need to go exhaustively into the arguments for and against again, surely. I would not wish to be cruel to any, but mixed facilities for all sorts of activities are available and they are the ones that should be used. Many, if not most, who are male or female use these, to no detriment to anyone. I swim weekly in a mixed pool, but the 'Ladies' changing is for women and little boys with their mums are only allowed up to about 8 years old. Whilst any trans has not fully transited, s/he should use the facilities to which s/he has been raised and is accustomed. Everyone, apart from these few (and it is only temporary after all) would then be happy.

[sp1814]

naomi24

I asked the question at 17:46 because I need clarification from you. I'm not 100% sure what your standpoint is - whether you object to trans women using female facilities, or men pretending to be trans women.

I can understand the latter, as there are dodgy blokes out there, but not the former.

[pixie374]

Well done, Kromo- that took you forever! Now- who is it that says they should 'match'? And why?

[sp1814]

pixie374

It's not just the law.

It's also the medical profession.

Gender dysmorphia is a recognised condition.

[naomi24]

sp. how am I to know the difference?

[sp1814]

naomi24

You're answering a question with a question.

Is your position that trans women should not be allowed to use female facilities?

[pixie374]

And so we don't have to do it all again... the foetus's brain self-determines its own body. So the body always matches what the brain says.