Ladies Only Swimming?

[mushroom25]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5223641/Hampstead-ladies-say-swimming-pond-not-gender-fluid.html

since it's becoming increasingly accepted that gender is less about chromosomes, appearance or reproductive ability but more a matter of state of mind not necessarily requiring reassignment intervention (and the gender recognition act 2004 is likely to be amended to reflect this), are the "X-X" denizens of the Kenwood Ladies Pond Association being a tad unreasonable?

[Togo]

Yeahhh but it is OK to pretend ignorance. :))

[naomi24]

SP, the real ignorance lies with the man who, despite having no experience of being a woman, decides to identify as such. He can only pretend.

[Togo]

Carry On Doctor. :))

MATRON:(Hattie Jacques) "Your mail, Doctor."
KENNETH:( Williams) "I know I’m male, and what’s more I can prove it!"

[sp1814]

naomi24

No...'men' who transition have lived their lives with a man up until reassignment surgery. The surgery means that their bodies now look how their mind feels.

And in any case, there's no such thing as a singular experience of being a woman. Women have millions of permutations, outlooks, experiences and lives.

The one thing that is true is that every woman is different.

[pixie374]

So is every man, so why the need to appear more like a woman?

[Peter Pedant]

// the real ignorance lies with the man who, despite having no experience of being a woman,.....//

the real ignorance is complete confusion between gender and anatomical sex - everyon here agrees that anatomically there can be ambiguous genitalia but the people they are attached to may not be confused as to gender

[pixie374]

That's exactly what I said...

[Peter Pedant]

hey we need a new word:
haeccity which I havent quite invented

"that property or quality of a thing by virtue of which it is unique or describable as ‘this (one)’.the property of being a unique and individual thing."he has a paramount concern with haecceity, the thisness of things"

Togo and sp1814 are both men but they are also separate - show haeccity ( they are different beings as well as being men)

as far as I can see - this can occur with gender - someone can say "I'm girl!" and another can say "I'm a girl too!" and yet they can be different as well.

just saying

[actually I just wanted to show Mushie I had done more than secondary school and what better than to dust off a philosophical concept from the fourtheenth century]

[Peter Pedant]

pixo - I agree
we are reading from the same book

hey everybody if you need haeccity for things then it is
"quiddity"
(PHILOSOPHY - the inherent nature or essence of someone or something. 2. a distinctive feature; a peculiarity. "his quirks and quiddities")

[Togo]

//"his quirks and quiddities") //

All that means is give us the "quids" "quirckly" or we will stink out the wrong rooms. :))

[naomi24]

SP, // Women have millions of permutations, outlooks, experiences and lives.//

True – but what does that have to do with men who pretend to be women?

[Togo]

//Togo and sp1814 are both men but they are also separate - show haeccity ( they are different beings as well as being men) //

Phew. Bet sp isn't as glad as me for that analysis. :))

[sp1814]

naomi24

You wrote:

//but what does that have to do with men who pretend to be women?//

They aren't pretending.

[Old_Geezer]

Since they are men and need surgery to appear as women, they are clearly pretending. The brain may be 'wired' such that they feel they are women, but they aren't.

[jno]

as far as I'm concerned, anyone with a woman's body should be allowed into the women's pond without having a DNA test - which is the way it is now. I don't care how they've come by the body.

[sp1814]

Old_Geezer

You've contradicted yourself.

You've said that someone who is physically a man can have a brain which is wired in such a way that they feel they are women. If that's the case, then they're not 'pretending' to be a woman.

When someone transitions, they have to spend two year living as a member of the opposite sex, whilst undergoing a battery of psychological tests by mental health professionals. This is critical to verify that the patient actually has gender dysmorphia.

[youngmafbog]

This sort of thing was bound to happen.

Once again a minority of people are ruling the majority.

There is nothing wrong with a Ladies pool or sessions or whatever. As a man even I can appreciate they want to fee safe and free from stares.

A lot of the current trans gender nonsense masks the issue a few people really have, and they re ally are a few. I suspect attention seeking is more of an issue for these people as it seems many people who have a real identity "issue" get on with it without shouting to the whole world.

[naomi24]

SP at 11:04, Dressing up in frilly undies and a dress doesn’t make them women, and insisting on being referred to as ‘she’ or ‘her’ doesn’t make them women. Whatever they are they’re not women.

[sp1814]

naomi24

What you're talking about is drag queens. They are pretending to be women. Transgendered women are women.

[pixie374]

They aren't, sp. That's daft.