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A Second Referendum Anyone?
Nigel thinks it might be a good idea, to send off Tony Blair "to obscurity".
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For those who say to have another second referendum is a vote against democracy, they seem to forget all the lies that were told by the brexit campaign like 350 Mill a week for the NHS, etc.
and another point missed the Referendum was advisory not a given thing.
considering the lies that were told and now the economic damage is slowly sinking in to many people I think a second referendum would not be a bad idea.
and let's not forget the Brexit vote was not an overwhelming majority just a few percentage points.
Had the results gone the other way and people voted remain by same margin I'm sure Farage, Johnson and their Ilk would have screamed for second referendum.
and another point missed the Referendum was advisory not a given thing.
considering the lies that were told and now the economic damage is slowly sinking in to many people I think a second referendum would not be a bad idea.
and let's not forget the Brexit vote was not an overwhelming majority just a few percentage points.
Had the results gone the other way and people voted remain by same margin I'm sure Farage, Johnson and their Ilk would have screamed for second referendum.
Given that there were no lies about £350 for the NHS except from remainers it may be time to give telling that whopper a miss.
Legally the referendum was advisory but as has been pointed out many many times, this is a democracy and so there was a moral imperative to carry through with the result, or to abandon any pretence that government were there for the democratic will of the people. So if there is a missed point by some, then it is that moral one.
Given that the economic consequences are not being seen as the disaster Project Fear preached and that no one said that disruption wouldn't have a short term affect, I don't see how this supports the idea of continuous referendums until the desired result is obtained.
And let's not forget that a majority is a majority so it is pointless moaning about the size of it.
And whilst one can not speak for the politicians you mention, I suspect in the circumstances you describe most leavers would say they would try to see if the public had come to their senses in a couple of decades time, not tried to force their preference by any means possible on others all the time, here and now.
Legally the referendum was advisory but as has been pointed out many many times, this is a democracy and so there was a moral imperative to carry through with the result, or to abandon any pretence that government were there for the democratic will of the people. So if there is a missed point by some, then it is that moral one.
Given that the economic consequences are not being seen as the disaster Project Fear preached and that no one said that disruption wouldn't have a short term affect, I don't see how this supports the idea of continuous referendums until the desired result is obtained.
And let's not forget that a majority is a majority so it is pointless moaning about the size of it.
And whilst one can not speak for the politicians you mention, I suspect in the circumstances you describe most leavers would say they would try to see if the public had come to their senses in a couple of decades time, not tried to force their preference by any means possible on others all the time, here and now.
Remainers are not Moaning we are just concerned about the future of our country
none of the brexit bunch seem to have any idea of how to actually implement the whole thing they seem to think we leave the EU and overnight everything will be hunky dorey and everybody will fall over themselves to do trade with UK. forget that. some trade deals take decades to implement.
and with this incompetent government who couldn't organise a *** up in a brewery, looking at the state of the railways, NHS ,etc,do people really think they going to make a success of brexit.? Dream on!
Already May has caved in to every Demand the Europeans have made.
but I think you are right Brexit will happen , but on the terms of the Europeans because they've got us by the short and curlies and they know it
especially after seeing May cave in to every demand they made so far.
the way I see brexit developing if it does happen we going to have a worse deal than before and paying 30 to 50 billion for the pleasure
another thing the Brexiters have not taken into consideration is that the majority of Scottish and Irish voted to remain.
if we do leave there's a distinct possibility the Union will break up if the Scottish demand another referendum on Independence.
and all that will be left is an insignificant little country called England
still as they say you reap what you sow
anyway it's all speculation at the moment the only way to find out we just have to sit back and see what happens and hope for the best.,
none of the brexit bunch seem to have any idea of how to actually implement the whole thing they seem to think we leave the EU and overnight everything will be hunky dorey and everybody will fall over themselves to do trade with UK. forget that. some trade deals take decades to implement.
and with this incompetent government who couldn't organise a *** up in a brewery, looking at the state of the railways, NHS ,etc,do people really think they going to make a success of brexit.? Dream on!
Already May has caved in to every Demand the Europeans have made.
but I think you are right Brexit will happen , but on the terms of the Europeans because they've got us by the short and curlies and they know it
especially after seeing May cave in to every demand they made so far.
the way I see brexit developing if it does happen we going to have a worse deal than before and paying 30 to 50 billion for the pleasure
another thing the Brexiters have not taken into consideration is that the majority of Scottish and Irish voted to remain.
if we do leave there's a distinct possibility the Union will break up if the Scottish demand another referendum on Independence.
and all that will be left is an insignificant little country called England
still as they say you reap what you sow
anyway it's all speculation at the moment the only way to find out we just have to sit back and see what happens and hope for the best.,
"...do people really think they [politicians] going to make a success of brexit.?
You credit them with too much ability. Business (like everything else in the UK) succeeds despite politicians, not because of them. It is businessmen and women that ensure the country earns its keep. In Europe all that national governments and in particular the EU do is to hamper and hinder their best efforts by excessive regulation and protectionism. With the worst of the offenders (the EU) out of the frame UK businesses will have the opportunity to stretch their legs.
"if we do leave there's a distinct possibility the Union will break up if the Scottish demand another referendum on Independence."
A win-win for England then. However the chances of a second referendum for Scotland is about the same as those for a second EU referendum. The chances of one where the majority vote for Scottish independence is about the same as those for Mr Farage becoming Prime Minister.
You credit them with too much ability. Business (like everything else in the UK) succeeds despite politicians, not because of them. It is businessmen and women that ensure the country earns its keep. In Europe all that national governments and in particular the EU do is to hamper and hinder their best efforts by excessive regulation and protectionism. With the worst of the offenders (the EU) out of the frame UK businesses will have the opportunity to stretch their legs.
"if we do leave there's a distinct possibility the Union will break up if the Scottish demand another referendum on Independence."
A win-win for England then. However the chances of a second referendum for Scotland is about the same as those for a second EU referendum. The chances of one where the majority vote for Scottish independence is about the same as those for Mr Farage becoming Prime Minister.
I think it is a bad idea, not because the outcome would change - I believe as Nigel does the leave vote would increase - IMO possibly 60 / 40, but it would produce even more divisiveness in the land.
The problem for the remainers is that they don't have any real reasons to substantiate their view other than a supposed apocalyptic financial catastrophe, but these are the same people who along with G.Osborne etc. predicted a melt-down if the country voted 'out', the country did, and far from it happening, the UK economy has gone on from strength to strength.
The leave camp however have litany of reasons to leave; regain of sovereignty, immigration, escaping the increasing desire of unelected Brussels bureaucrats towards ever more federalism, a European army, the ECHR holding power over British law, the adding of more EU members - including Turkey, lack of European border control -- and more.
So the UK voted 'out' and 'out' it shall be.
The problem for the remainers is that they don't have any real reasons to substantiate their view other than a supposed apocalyptic financial catastrophe, but these are the same people who along with G.Osborne etc. predicted a melt-down if the country voted 'out', the country did, and far from it happening, the UK economy has gone on from strength to strength.
The leave camp however have litany of reasons to leave; regain of sovereignty, immigration, escaping the increasing desire of unelected Brussels bureaucrats towards ever more federalism, a European army, the ECHR holding power over British law, the adding of more EU members - including Turkey, lack of European border control -- and more.
So the UK voted 'out' and 'out' it shall be.
> the leave vote would increase - IMO possibly 60 / 40, but it would produce even more divisiveness in the land.
What leads you to that conclusion? Surely the closer a result is to 50:50, the more divisive it is. 52:48 was divisive. 60:40 would be less so.
Unless of course you mean more people would vote, like the 27.8% who did not turn out the last time, or the under-18s who would be over 18 by the next vote.
What leads you to that conclusion? Surely the closer a result is to 50:50, the more divisive it is. 52:48 was divisive. 60:40 would be less so.
Unless of course you mean more people would vote, like the 27.8% who did not turn out the last time, or the under-18s who would be over 18 by the next vote.
Ellipsis; By "divisive" I'm not referring to the proportions of the vote, I'm referring to the increased divisiveness within UK society which would only be increased by more campaigning either way.
It is a done deed, and we should just get on with it. I don't think Farage is serious about it anyway, he just wants to draw attention to the fact that there is increased support for leave, certainly if this site is a reflection of wider society (?) then the remainers are in a distinct minority.
It is a done deed, and we should just get on with it. I don't think Farage is serious about it anyway, he just wants to draw attention to the fact that there is increased support for leave, certainly if this site is a reflection of wider society (?) then the remainers are in a distinct minority.
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