Are We All 'racists'?

[Khandro]

Or is it simply a handy, pejorative term to label someone when the argument is being lost, what does it mean, and where would you apply it if at all?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/947480/morrissey-interview-racist-meaningless-london-news-sadiq-khan-london-knife-crime

[cassa333]

You might if you were starving Steg ;-)

[Zacs-Master]

‘Trying to belittle the messenger‘
Khandro, at least I made an effort to join in the thread. When you constantly cite an 80s indie pop ‘star’ as some kind of barometer or benchmark of public opinion, you only serve to make yourself the object of ridicule.

[andy-hughes]

It is a term that is used in far wider circumstances that its clear definition actually allows - but that has always been the way with any term or expression in the English language.

I long ago ceased taking a lot of notice of Morrisey's pronouncements - he is the business of selling records, and he's really not especially good at it, as his fourteen different record labels will confirm.

Like Tony Blair in politics, Morrissey is pop's yesterday man, unable to accept that the world has moved on and left him behind.

[Khandro]

Zacs; You still have never learnt the difference in a sentence, between the subject and the predicate, so really it is you who continually "make yourself the object of ridicule", (similarly now andy-hughes.)
If you both would like to discuss Morrissy why not start a thread on that subject?
This thread is entitled, "Are We All Racists?", and was taken from a headline in the Daily Express.

[Zacs-Master]

What on Earth are you prattling on about Khandro. The headline in your OP link states
‘‘We’re ALL racist now!’ Morrissey claims term has been stripped of meaning by ‘Loony left’
The Subject is racism. The predicate would be Morrisey’s claim.
What do you want us to do, debate something entirely different?

[Khandro]

Zacs; //The Subject is racism.//
Yep, I think you are slowly getting there.

[Mamyalynne]

//Are We All 'racists'?//

No.

[Garaman]

No, we are not all racists, but sadly some are.

//Or is it simply a handy, pejorative term to label someone when the argument is being lost// It is often used in that manner, though you can't say that is simply all the term means.

//what does it mean, and where would you apply it if at all?// It means someone who is unduly prejudiced against another purely because of race or colour. I would apply it only when that is clearly the case. For example, I wouldn't use it to someone who was pointing out that a higher percentage of blacks commit crime, but I would use it to the describe the likes of Stephen Lawrence's killers.

[Zacs-Master]

Khandro, are you saying the fact that Morrissey said it is irrelevant? Because it isn’t. It’s very pertinent.

[tamborine]

Birds of a feather n’all

[Mamyalynne]

Cryptic.

[dunnitall]

Who's Morrissey....cough. IMO to define any "ism" we need to know exactly what it means in context of offence. However, I personally think people just bandy these ism's about for effect and to cause a stir or gain publicity. I imagine, to be arrested for the offence would need proving beyond reasonable doubt be easy methinks. Just my take...or I could be talking through my aspidistra. (Often been said...ahem).

[tamborine]

I never watch Lorraine coz I need an intepreter - has she gone yet?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Agreed, we're not all "racists", only some of us. I, for example, am certainly a "racist" in the modern sense of the word (and in its original sense, too, but only if you substitute the word "culture" for "race" - I don't think race (=genes) has much to do with anything, on the other hand I certainly believe there are superior and inferior cultures).

I disagree with you, Khandro, that the term is used to end an argument which is being lost; the term is typically deployed either to stop a proper argument starting, or to constraint the way it may develop.

For example, a "racist" may ask why most gang rapists are Pakistani, or why most of the perpetrators and most of the victims of London's knife crimes don't have traditional English names. And he does this because he sees a correlation which he thinks needs accounting for: we have data which may be relevant - or may not - but, either way, we won't know until we ask the question and examine the evidence.

The non-racist disallows these questions because they carry the implication, if only hypothetically, that racial (I prefer "cultural") differences may account for differences in criminality. This possibility is excluded a priori by the non-racist's world view, and the "racist" is morally wrong (for all the obvious reason) for suggesting it.

[Khandro]

v_e://I disagree with you, Khandro, that the term is used to end an argument which is being lost; the term is typically deployed either to stop a proper argument starting, or to constraint the way it may develop.//
I think that is a valid and very important point. If I wish to discuss say, the the performance of the London Mayor, I run the immediate risk of being accused of being a racist, particularly if I wish to point to how his judgements are often linked to his Islamic background, - as for example removing posters of Bikini-clad models from the London Underground.

[Mamyalynne]

//as for example removing posters of Bikini-clad models from the London Underground.//

Which were part of a larger campaign about so called 'body shaming images' - as the father of two teenage girls I think he had every right to voice his views.

[Khandro]

Mamya; "In a statement, Sadiq Khan said: “As the father of two teenage girls, I am extremely concerned about this kind of advertising which can demean people, particularly women, and make them ashamed of their bodies. It is high time it came to an end." The Guardian

I am also the father of two daughters, neither whom are ashamed of their bodies (nor any of their friends as far as I know). I'm not ashamed of my body - are you ashamed of your body ? No London Mayor or public figure has ever made such a statement, why is that do you think? and who were the people who signed the petition?
Am I being a racist for suggesting that his announcement had something to do with his background?

[Mamyalynne]

Concerns about body shaming are relatively new in terms of campaigns but I think it's clear we won't agree on this one, so I'll leave it now having answered your OP.

[Garaman]

I wouldn’t call anyone racist for questioning the performance of a London Mayor. I wouldn’t call anybody racist for pointing out that more of one race commit a certain crime than any other. I might think that they were racist though if they only seemed to point out such things where it applied to one particular race or colour.