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Is This Just Scaremongering
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IJKLM, // You are at liberty to disagree, but the facts remain: The leavers had the chance to get a better deal; they ran away from that opportunity.
09:14 Thu 29th Nov 2018
One no more seeks to blame remainers for the mess than one seeks to blame someone caught stabbing a victim over and over for the victim's condition.
The cauee is clear, been stated many times. The real conundrum is why remainers think they fool anyone by trying to pin the lack of a decent deal on those who kicked off the ball to gaining our freedom. They must be aware, deep down, they they didn't get on board and so allowed/encouraged subsequent events. One, the PM, actually got involved with creating then rather than just naively encouraging EU "negotiators ".
The cauee is clear, been stated many times. The real conundrum is why remainers think they fool anyone by trying to pin the lack of a decent deal on those who kicked off the ball to gaining our freedom. They must be aware, deep down, they they didn't get on board and so allowed/encouraged subsequent events. One, the PM, actually got involved with creating then rather than just naively encouraging EU "negotiators ".
-- answer removed --
That entire argument is just buck-passing. There was never a responsibility of Remainers to "get on board with" something they fundamentally disagreed with. To accept the result, sure, but neither to deliver the outcome nor to tamely roll over and allow Brexiteers to dictate the process.
You voted for it -- why is it so hard to then accept that you should have controlled the process, and, notably, that you have not even remotely tried to do so? And now, yet again, one more arch-Leaver has submitted to pragmatism. Listen to them, if you must ignore us.
You voted for it -- why is it so hard to then accept that you should have controlled the process, and, notably, that you have not even remotely tried to do so? And now, yet again, one more arch-Leaver has submitted to pragmatism. Listen to them, if you must ignore us.
IJKLM, // You are at liberty to disagree, but the facts remain: The leavers had the chance to get a better deal; they ran away from that opportunity.//
You can’t have read my post. I didn’t disagree with you on that. Leavers have been thoroughly and purposefully betrayed by a bunch of trembling chinless wonders – and that includes those negotiating with the EU and those supporting them in their duplicitous ambition. Weak to a man/woman.
//Is that not what all of us want - sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament?//
Since Remainers have been chomping at the bit to remain bound to the EU as tightly as possible, no, it very clearly isn’t what all of us want.
kvalidir, //fluke of ego, copious amounts of drugs, too much gin….You genuinely could not make this up. //
Indeed I couldn’t make it up – but you could. Too much gin?
Krom, //You've been sold a turkey, OG.//
I don’t recall being ‘sold’ anything. The selling, as far as I can see, came from the government in the shape of a booklet outlining all the reasons we should vote ‘Remain’. Not that they were biased of course.
It’s been said by both sides that we would be better to remain in than to accept this appalling ‘deal’ – which is true. However, we’d have been better still 'out' but that has never been an option because that prospect has never been on the table.
Remainers appear to be suffering from Vicky Pollard syndrome. “No but, yes but”.... not me Guv! Clearly, had Mrs May taken the path of a Leaver, as she should have done, ‘deals’ that allow us to retain one foot and more in the door wouldn’t have been an issue. Remainers, led by treacherous politicians, have done everything possible to thwart the result of the referendum, gleefully rubbing their sticky little mits together in anticipation of the outcome of Mrs May’s attempts to wangle a deal, regardless of the cost, that would keep us in, and now their wish has been realised they discover - to their alarm - that they’re left with something they really didn’t want. Rabbits caught in the headlights - all.
You can’t have read my post. I didn’t disagree with you on that. Leavers have been thoroughly and purposefully betrayed by a bunch of trembling chinless wonders – and that includes those negotiating with the EU and those supporting them in their duplicitous ambition. Weak to a man/woman.
//Is that not what all of us want - sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament?//
Since Remainers have been chomping at the bit to remain bound to the EU as tightly as possible, no, it very clearly isn’t what all of us want.
kvalidir, //fluke of ego, copious amounts of drugs, too much gin….You genuinely could not make this up. //
Indeed I couldn’t make it up – but you could. Too much gin?
Krom, //You've been sold a turkey, OG.//
I don’t recall being ‘sold’ anything. The selling, as far as I can see, came from the government in the shape of a booklet outlining all the reasons we should vote ‘Remain’. Not that they were biased of course.
It’s been said by both sides that we would be better to remain in than to accept this appalling ‘deal’ – which is true. However, we’d have been better still 'out' but that has never been an option because that prospect has never been on the table.
Remainers appear to be suffering from Vicky Pollard syndrome. “No but, yes but”.... not me Guv! Clearly, had Mrs May taken the path of a Leaver, as she should have done, ‘deals’ that allow us to retain one foot and more in the door wouldn’t have been an issue. Remainers, led by treacherous politicians, have done everything possible to thwart the result of the referendum, gleefully rubbing their sticky little mits together in anticipation of the outcome of Mrs May’s attempts to wangle a deal, regardless of the cost, that would keep us in, and now their wish has been realised they discover - to their alarm - that they’re left with something they really didn’t want. Rabbits caught in the headlights - all.
//have done everything possible to thwart the result of the referendum//
Except, of course, vote against Brexit legislation in parliament.
There's no grand Remainer conspiracy, naomi. The reason we're in this mess is that Britain "just leaving" with zero involvement with the EU in just two years is simply an impossible fantasy. You should be directing your ire at the cowards who led the Leave campaign who failed to take responsibility.
Except, of course, vote against Brexit legislation in parliament.
There's no grand Remainer conspiracy, naomi. The reason we're in this mess is that Britain "just leaving" with zero involvement with the EU in just two years is simply an impossible fantasy. You should be directing your ire at the cowards who led the Leave campaign who failed to take responsibility.
It's the responsibility of every citizen to back their county's choice. Why the pretence anyone need not participate ? The claim is nonsense. We act as one or we are in disarray and easy to manipulate.
As for Brexiteer MPs not taking responsibility, there were some of them in the leadership vote; I don't believe they just got cold feet. IMO party kingmakers or whatever you want to call those with influence in the party behind the scenes, will have convinced candidates to let May go through as a compromise leader, equally undesired/supported by all. (Until it was obvious what a hash she was making.)
As for Brexiteer MPs not taking responsibility, there were some of them in the leadership vote; I don't believe they just got cold feet. IMO party kingmakers or whatever you want to call those with influence in the party behind the scenes, will have convinced candidates to let May go through as a compromise leader, equally undesired/supported by all. (Until it was obvious what a hash she was making.)
//It's the responsibility of every citizen to back their county's choice//
No it isn't. Unless you subscribe to "My country, right or wrong."
//Parliament openly rejecting the result of a referendum//
Could have happened as the referendum was technically advisory. If there were a giant Remainer conspiracy, the govt's Brexit legislation would not have passed through the commons with precious little amendment. But it did.
OG:
Stop making excuses for them. These people made you promises and then refused to deliver on them. If they indeed folded under the first bit of pressure from party bigwigs, they could scarcely have been very committed in the first place. These are the people you need to be holding to account.
No it isn't. Unless you subscribe to "My country, right or wrong."
//Parliament openly rejecting the result of a referendum//
Could have happened as the referendum was technically advisory. If there were a giant Remainer conspiracy, the govt's Brexit legislation would not have passed through the commons with precious little amendment. But it did.
OG:
Stop making excuses for them. These people made you promises and then refused to deliver on them. If they indeed folded under the first bit of pressure from party bigwigs, they could scarcely have been very committed in the first place. These are the people you need to be holding to account.
Krom, I do, and have, held those people to account. However, the responsibility for ensuring that ‘Leave’ happened was Mrs May’s – and she had no intention of fulfilling that duty. This has been a stitch up from the beginning and one that the Remainers have, until now, been eager to support. As I said, rabbits caught in the headlights. Oo-er! Didn’t expect that!
Didn't expect what? I don't get the rabbits-in-headlights analogy if Remainers are supposedly orchestrating all this.
Was it really "from the start"? I seem to actually recall Remainers despairing at May's Lancaster House speech (which was distinctly un-Remainy), and at her guff about "red white and blue" Brexit. You yourself were quite a fan until relatively recently.
The reason she has ended up with the current deal isn't because of some grand conspiracy, it's because the cold hard truth is that "just leaving" abruptly in March 2018 was not realistically possible.
Was it really "from the start"? I seem to actually recall Remainers despairing at May's Lancaster House speech (which was distinctly un-Remainy), and at her guff about "red white and blue" Brexit. You yourself were quite a fan until relatively recently.
The reason she has ended up with the current deal isn't because of some grand conspiracy, it's because the cold hard truth is that "just leaving" abruptly in March 2018 was not realistically possible.
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