Indicative Votes Point Nowhere

[vetuste_ennemi]

No alternative model attracted a majority.

The House was agreed, however, that there'll be no fireworks and festivity on the 29th and reiterates its determination that under no circumstances will it allow a "No Deal" Brexit

[jim360]

// You can (or can you not?) quit an abusive long-term relationship. //

Indeed you can, but you're clearly begging the question: I utterly reject the idea that being in the EU was akin to such a relationship. Nor was it miserable and unsatisfactory. At the very least, the UK was clearly in two minds on the issue, a split that deserves to be reflected in any resolution. So far as I can see, the only way it's possible to resolve that split is for one side or the other within the UK to abandon their principles and their beliefs.

The biggest problem with today, in my mind at least, is not so much that it happened but that it happened far too late. The UK should have come to agreement with itself, as best it could, then we should have gone to the EU with that agreement. In the event, these two processes have happened in exactly the opposite order, assuming the UK even reaches self-consensus at all, which is unlikely: all the last three years appear to have done is entrench the positions even further. In as much as it's ever possible for me to understand Brexit supporters, I can see why their positions have hardened, and that is not meant as a criticism.

[Peter Pedant]

so the House of Commons hasnt taken control of brexit
they have just continued to poss about .....

[vetuste_ennemi]

I voted to leave the EU mainly, if ironically, because I want the rules under which I live to be determined by representatives I elect and, as importantly, unelect (if that's a word).

No part of that decision was based on hostility to "Europe". My position has not "hardened", except that in the failure to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal on the terms of trade post-Brexit which provided an "orderly" exit, then I now prefer a "No Deal" exit will entail totally unnecessary short-term disruption.

[Old_Geezer]

If over half the people in a room want a switch turned off and the rest want it left on then there is no resolution whereby the split can be reflected. Although I'm sure the minority will suggest leaving it on but painting it so it looks off. Or claiming it's off but welding it open. Or maybe removing the cover but leaving it operating. Perhaps taking another vote, or dismissing the very idea of turning it off. Perhaps it could be discussed further by a committee made up of mostly on supporters and a few off supporters ?

[Old_Geezer]

They haven't taken control of Brexit, they took control of what the House would discuss. The political system is quite complicated and it's difficult to know how and when a government is allowed to govern and when the rest of the House can prevent it. There often seems to be disagreement on what takes priority.

[jim360]

Better to view EU membership as a dimmer rather than a switch. It's perfectly possible in principle to turn the light down (for a time) rather than off altogether.

[Old_Geezer]

No one voted for a dim solution. Just dim MPs it seems.

[jim360]

So far, we haven't been asked. "Leaving" covers a whole spectrum of "dim".

[ToraToraTora]

"and reiterates its determination that under no circumstances will it allow a "No Deal" Brexit " - fair enough but what measures are they taking to stop it?

[ToraToraTora]

they can talk about new deals and vote as much as they want but the EU ain't budging so it's pointless. As I said in other threads only 3 options remain:
1) Leave under May's deal
2) Leave with no deal
3) Revoke A50 and stay
my order of preference is 2,3,1

[naomi24]

//"Leaving" covers a whole spectrum of "dim". //

Only to the dim. Defining 'Leave' isn't difficult.

[jim360]

Achieving "Leave" is clearly hard though. And that's not because MPs are determined to thwart it but because it is objectively tricky to disentangle two systems that were so connected to each other.

[naomi24]

//that's not because MPs are determined to thwart it//

Yes, Jim, it is... but you know that. It suits you to say "Leaving" covers a whole spectrum of "dim", but it doesn't. Keep spinning.

[Old_Geezer]

How could you believe that ? The complexity of separation has no necessary affect on a genuine leave, just how we process it after splitting. Nothing is necessarily stopping us going tomorrow save the Westminster antics and their delay demands.

[ToraToraTora]

this is another coup in progress just like the one in 1973. The HOC are determined to thwart the will of the people because they don't agree with it. As I have said all along, we have vegans organizing a BBQ, end of.

[-Talbot-]

A no deal Brexit must be ruled out because it was absolutely smashed by... er... 4 votes.

[ToraToraTora]

they can rule it out but that wont stop it unless they put something in its place, it is the default. At the moment they are debating and proposing all manner of deals but ignoring the fact that whatever they come up with has to be agreed with the EU by 12th or we drop out of bottom.

[Kromovaracun]

I don't want to drop out of bottom! That sounds ghastly.

[jim360]

No spin here. Never has been, never will be. Try changing your salt cellar for some actual debates for a change, N.

[ichkeria]

The No Deal Brexit option was defeated by 240 votes.