ChatterBank8 mins ago
Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie
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Zacs - // God save us from the Liberal latitudes which our penal reform members would give to scum like Floyd. //
Mr Floyd has not been given anything by anyone - his family have been given compensation by the City of Minieapolis, so quite who 'our penal reform members' are, and where they fit into your scenario, I have no idea.
// They’d have us all in fear of our lives with their libertarian ‘innocent until proven guilty, despite their irredeemable past record’ rubbish. //
The entire concept of innocence until proof of guilt rests on the notion of redeptmption, and the power of people who do wrong to do right after their punishment.
If you think society is in a state now, imagine what it would be like ef every criminal knew that they would be convicted on past crimes for which they have paid with pena; servitude or fines - there would be a blanket 'nothing to lose' attitude from every convicted criminal who is going to be damned for what they did, with no thought given to what they do to try and lead better lives.
Mr Floyd has not been given anything by anyone - his family have been given compensation by the City of Minieapolis, so quite who 'our penal reform members' are, and where they fit into your scenario, I have no idea.
// They’d have us all in fear of our lives with their libertarian ‘innocent until proven guilty, despite their irredeemable past record’ rubbish. //
The entire concept of innocence until proof of guilt rests on the notion of redeptmption, and the power of people who do wrong to do right after their punishment.
If you think society is in a state now, imagine what it would be like ef every criminal knew that they would be convicted on past crimes for which they have paid with pena; servitude or fines - there would be a blanket 'nothing to lose' attitude from every convicted criminal who is going to be damned for what they did, with no thought given to what they do to try and lead better lives.
I may have phrased my reply badly. I fully appreciate IUPG is a cornerstone of a civil society. But there are people (Floyd being a typical example) of someone who is a career criminal, and for whom the weight of their criminal tendencies, to me, has a bearing on their worth as human beings.
He would, in all probability, have gone on to commit other crimes and blighted other people’s lives in the process and I cannot personally bring myself to feel any compassion for his being expunged from the face of the planet.
He would, in all probability, have gone on to commit other crimes and blighted other people’s lives in the process and I cannot personally bring myself to feel any compassion for his being expunged from the face of the planet.
naomi , // I don’t care about the cartoon either. It’s a cartoon, that’s all.//
But cartoons, like everything else, have consequences; it was a cartoon published by the same 'satirical weekly', Charlie Ebdo, which led to the beheading of the teacher Samuel Paty, & 3 days later the murder of 3 people and the injuries to several people in a knife attack at the basilica of Notre Dame at Nice.
Notwithstanding the 12 dead & 11 injured at the offices of Charlie Ebdo itself in 2015.
Perhaps you should care a bit more about cartoons?
But cartoons, like everything else, have consequences; it was a cartoon published by the same 'satirical weekly', Charlie Ebdo, which led to the beheading of the teacher Samuel Paty, & 3 days later the murder of 3 people and the injuries to several people in a knife attack at the basilica of Notre Dame at Nice.
Notwithstanding the 12 dead & 11 injured at the offices of Charlie Ebdo itself in 2015.
Perhaps you should care a bit more about cartoons?
It's art. The queen represents more than herself, she's also the Royal Family, the crown, the institution, the "firm" that was metaphorically choking Meghan, who also represents Harry.
An equivalent cartoon would show a very tight, and tightening, expensive royal necklace around Meghan's throat, but that wouldn't have been so obvious or have evoked such a reaction. So the cartoon has worked.
An equivalent cartoon would show a very tight, and tightening, expensive royal necklace around Meghan's throat, but that wouldn't have been so obvious or have evoked such a reaction. So the cartoon has worked.
bednobs; // Khandro, if you are suggesting cartoons should be stopped or blamed when people use them for excuses, then you really are just giving in to bullying and terrorism.//
I have no wish to give in to bullying and terrorism, but the question you should ask is, 'who is bullying whom?'
I have in front of me (I haven't seen the image) a description of the Charlie Hebdo cartoon which led to the deaths I have outlined above; the cartoon which Samuel Paty showed to his class of 14 year olds & I'm not saying that this is in itself a justification for these actions, but consider it;
Quote, " [it] was drawn by Corrine Rey - a,k.a.- Coco - a Charlie Hebdo stalwart. It showed the prophet on all fours, testicles dangling, buttocks in the foreground, with a star over his anus "
Was this satire or overt provocation to Muslim sensibilities? & was it a good idea to show it to children in whatever context in a classroom?
I have no wish to give in to bullying and terrorism, but the question you should ask is, 'who is bullying whom?'
I have in front of me (I haven't seen the image) a description of the Charlie Hebdo cartoon which led to the deaths I have outlined above; the cartoon which Samuel Paty showed to his class of 14 year olds & I'm not saying that this is in itself a justification for these actions, but consider it;
Quote, " [it] was drawn by Corrine Rey - a,k.a.- Coco - a Charlie Hebdo stalwart. It showed the prophet on all fours, testicles dangling, buttocks in the foreground, with a star over his anus "
Was this satire or overt provocation to Muslim sensibilities? & was it a good idea to show it to children in whatever context in a classroom?
Zacs - // I may have phrased my reply badly. I fully appreciate IUPG is a cornerstone of a civil society. But there are people (Floyd being a typical example) of someone who is a career criminal, and for whom the weight of their criminal tendencies, to me, has a bearing on their worth as human beings.
He would, in all probability, have gone on to commit other crimes and blighted other people’s lives in the process and I cannot personally bring myself to feel any compassion for his being expunged from the face of the planet. //
Thanks for this follow-up.
In case there is any doubt about where I stand in terms of my belief in the justice system, I am minded to agree with your assessment of Mr Floyd's potential future, and since he is a complete stranger, I would think it an unreasonable stretch for you, or indeed anyone else not personally acquainted with any positive character traits he may have possessed, to mourn his passing.
He would, in all probability, have gone on to commit other crimes and blighted other people’s lives in the process and I cannot personally bring myself to feel any compassion for his being expunged from the face of the planet. //
Thanks for this follow-up.
In case there is any doubt about where I stand in terms of my belief in the justice system, I am minded to agree with your assessment of Mr Floyd's potential future, and since he is a complete stranger, I would think it an unreasonable stretch for you, or indeed anyone else not personally acquainted with any positive character traits he may have possessed, to mourn his passing.
Who is bullying whom... it's clearly the violent people who are the problem. I'm not sure they would be appropriate for children- or that they would understand them. For Muslims, its no more "provocation" to violence, than any other disagreement with any other religion. You seem to be suggesting that if people are prone to violence, they should be treated more sensitively?
Khandro - // Was this satire or overt provocation to Muslim sensibilities? & was it a good idea to show it to children in whatever context in a classroom? //
I make no secret of the fact that I hold no religious faith whatsoever, but I like to think that if I did, my belief would be robust enough to stand a cartoon intended to mock said beliefs, and not be of a psychotic nature whereby I would take my affront as a signal to go and murder some complete strangers.
I make no secret of the fact that I hold no religious faith whatsoever, but I like to think that if I did, my belief would be robust enough to stand a cartoon intended to mock said beliefs, and not be of a psychotic nature whereby I would take my affront as a signal to go and murder some complete strangers.
pixie - // For Muslims, its no more "provocation" to violence, than any other disagreement with any other religion. You seem to be suggesting that if people are prone to violence, they should be treated more sensitively? //
As I have posted times without number, terrorists are not Muslims, they are psychopaths who like to use the pretence of devout Muslim beliefs as an excuse for their actions because it's much easier to look in the mirror and say "I am a Muslim doing what Allah wants me to do ..." rather than the unpalatable truth, which would actually be to say "I am a complete and text-book psychopath and I kill complete strangers because I like doing it."
Human nature will always go for the soft option, it prevents sleepless nights after a bout of murder and mayhem.
As I have posted times without number, terrorists are not Muslims, they are psychopaths who like to use the pretence of devout Muslim beliefs as an excuse for their actions because it's much easier to look in the mirror and say "I am a Muslim doing what Allah wants me to do ..." rather than the unpalatable truth, which would actually be to say "I am a complete and text-book psychopath and I kill complete strangers because I like doing it."
Human nature will always go for the soft option, it prevents sleepless nights after a bout of murder and mayhem.
Atheist - // Andy, I suspect that 'Muslim terrorists' are, or believe themselves to be, Muslims. Their controllers may well be cold-blooded manipulators of people of faith, but I think the ones who go out to kill and be killed are motivated by religious belief. //
We will have to agree to disagree then.
My perspective is that anyone who believes they are furthering the message of Islam by murdering strangers is, as I have pointed out, simply using the convenient peg of religion on which to hang a reason for their psychopathy.
It takes faith to believe you are a believer in any religion in the world, it takes severe psychosis to believe that killing people is a good thing to do, whatever reason you are giving yourself to make yourself feel better.
We will have to agree to disagree then.
My perspective is that anyone who believes they are furthering the message of Islam by murdering strangers is, as I have pointed out, simply using the convenient peg of religion on which to hang a reason for their psychopathy.
It takes faith to believe you are a believer in any religion in the world, it takes severe psychosis to believe that killing people is a good thing to do, whatever reason you are giving yourself to make yourself feel better.
//For Muslims, its no more "provocation" to violence, than any other disagreement with any other religion.//
Publishing satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed is provocation to Muslims. Consider the enormous number of satirical depictions of God or Jesus Christ - or even movies like the Life of Brian, or the stage musical Jerry Springer the Opera, and you’ll find protests by Christians - but not slaughter. Persistently denying that Islam doesn’t do what it does merely shoves the problem under the carpet.
//As I have posted times without number, terrorists are not Muslims, they are psychopaths who like to use the pretence of devout Muslim beliefs as an excuse for their actions//
And as I have posted times without number, Muslim terrorists are Muslims - of the most devout kind. Of all the people on those planes on 9/11, be they Christian, Jewish. Muslim, or anything else, there were none so faithful to their God than the hijackers.
The point here is if you’re complaining about this satirical cartoon you have no business criticising others who are offended by satirical cartoons - which is why no one should be offended by them. If only the world would grow up.
Publishing satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed is provocation to Muslims. Consider the enormous number of satirical depictions of God or Jesus Christ - or even movies like the Life of Brian, or the stage musical Jerry Springer the Opera, and you’ll find protests by Christians - but not slaughter. Persistently denying that Islam doesn’t do what it does merely shoves the problem under the carpet.
//As I have posted times without number, terrorists are not Muslims, they are psychopaths who like to use the pretence of devout Muslim beliefs as an excuse for their actions//
And as I have posted times without number, Muslim terrorists are Muslims - of the most devout kind. Of all the people on those planes on 9/11, be they Christian, Jewish. Muslim, or anything else, there were none so faithful to their God than the hijackers.
The point here is if you’re complaining about this satirical cartoon you have no business criticising others who are offended by satirical cartoons - which is why no one should be offended by them. If only the world would grow up.
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