News2 mins ago
Women Need To Be Streetwise About The Powers Of Arrest And Learn Legal Process....apparently.
Is the criticism currently being levelled at Commissioner Philip Allott justified, or is he simply speaking common sense?
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I think few people, if confronted by a policeman would be sure of their legal footing. Seems like an example of victim-blaming.
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I think few people, if confronted by a policeman would be sure of their legal footing. Seems like an example of victim-blaming.
Answers
danny - // Women need to be streetwise to a certain extent ... // And that statement simply adds to my argument. Why do women have to be 'streetwise to a certain extent', when men clearly do not? And is that acceptable? My point is that they should no more have to be streetwise' than any men, and that society thinks it's OK to confirm that they should, is what is wrong...
19:03 Sat 02nd Oct 2021
Knowing that the police are kept well informed of social issues - courses abound - I don’t doubt for one moment that the creature who committed this appalling crime was well aware of what he ought to think about women …. but other instincts took precedence …. and that’s the reason your solution is idealistic, and hence, unworkable, AH.
Naomi, the lack of logic in your argument demands a thread of its own, but I am delighted to dismantle it here.
If we stop, or in the case of this specific aspect of vital education, we don't bother to start, on the basis that an infantesimal proportion of individuals misuse the opportunity it allows, where do we stop?
America must shut down its entire education system because then no random psychos can indulge in classroom massacres.
Over here, we must ban cars and shut pubs because some people use a combination of both to run over innocent pedestrians.
And you will have to surrender your guns because some people use theirs to murder people instead of wildlife.
Just because a minute percentage of the population are psychotic, and immune to the encouragement of treating women properly, is no argument whatsoever for failing to educate the rest.
If we stop, or in the case of this specific aspect of vital education, we don't bother to start, on the basis that an infantesimal proportion of individuals misuse the opportunity it allows, where do we stop?
America must shut down its entire education system because then no random psychos can indulge in classroom massacres.
Over here, we must ban cars and shut pubs because some people use a combination of both to run over innocent pedestrians.
And you will have to surrender your guns because some people use theirs to murder people instead of wildlife.
Just because a minute percentage of the population are psychotic, and immune to the encouragement of treating women properly, is no argument whatsoever for failing to educate the rest.
I feel this thread will get new legs.
andy-hughes
What should be happening, is a wholscale upgrade in the education of young men, who should be being taught respect and equality with women, and not the idea that they are 'after-it strumpets who work on your uncontollable urges, so it's not your fault'.
__________________________
Who are these people teaching young men that women are 'after it trumpets?
Whoever they are they should be sacked immediately.
andy-hughes
What should be happening, is a wholscale upgrade in the education of young men, who should be being taught respect and equality with women, and not the idea that they are 'after-it strumpets who work on your uncontollable urges, so it's not your fault'.
__________________________
Who are these people teaching young men that women are 'after it trumpets?
Whoever they are they should be sacked immediately.
Sadly, I don't think education will do anything to prevent abuse and murder if you're that way inclined. I've recently been watching Britain's Most Evil Killers and according to criminologists it makes no difference what your background is. Fascinating albeit harrowing.
How do you prevent children being murdered? They don't walk the streets at night and 9 times out of 10 the murderer is know to the victim.
How do you prevent children being murdered? They don't walk the streets at night and 9 times out of 10 the murderer is know to the victim.
It is all around every male - and female - on this planet, and is *intensified* every day and thrust on the psyches at an ever younger age - the sensualized and sexualized surroundings we all have no option but to live in, AND condone, arising from the hormonally induced and *socially encouraged* animal act/biological imperative.
The silence on 'the facts of Life' here, speaks volumes... you are either unaware, or, don't want to hear.
The silence on 'the facts of Life' here, speaks volumes... you are either unaware, or, don't want to hear.
naomi - // That man knew it's wrong to abuse women, just as most western men know it's wrong to abuse women. That doesn't stop those who will from doing what they do. //
But that is exactly the problem.
Men don't know that it's wrong, because men's attitudes to women are subtly ingrained in them from an early age, when dads say to their sons 'You'll never understand women son ... ' - is where the subtle notion that women are 'different' starts its journey, and by adulthood, that becomes an accepted view, underscored by typical male behaviour.
So I don't agree that they 'know it's wrong' and do it anyway, these are longstanding cultural attitudes, and they need to be changed.
// I'll ignore the rest of your post. Far from dismantling anything, it simply reads as ridiculous. //
You have been exchanging with the fervents too long, and now you are adopting their procedures -
When the post something that is patently ridiculous, someone - more often than not yourself, comes along and points out the ludicrousness of their argument by offering an alternate viewpoint.
Because they hate to admit that they were wrong, and that you have a valid point, the simply scoff and deride what you have said, which saves them the tiresome task of accepting that they may be wrong, and you may be right.
That is what you are doing - and the next stage, which I am sure you already know, is to ignore further responses, and return another day with the slate wiped clean.
No problem, scoff away - your argument has been debunked, and you can laugh and jog on, but your post remains to be read for the faulty logic it offers, and mine for the dismantling of it.
But that is exactly the problem.
Men don't know that it's wrong, because men's attitudes to women are subtly ingrained in them from an early age, when dads say to their sons 'You'll never understand women son ... ' - is where the subtle notion that women are 'different' starts its journey, and by adulthood, that becomes an accepted view, underscored by typical male behaviour.
So I don't agree that they 'know it's wrong' and do it anyway, these are longstanding cultural attitudes, and they need to be changed.
// I'll ignore the rest of your post. Far from dismantling anything, it simply reads as ridiculous. //
You have been exchanging with the fervents too long, and now you are adopting their procedures -
When the post something that is patently ridiculous, someone - more often than not yourself, comes along and points out the ludicrousness of their argument by offering an alternate viewpoint.
Because they hate to admit that they were wrong, and that you have a valid point, the simply scoff and deride what you have said, which saves them the tiresome task of accepting that they may be wrong, and you may be right.
That is what you are doing - and the next stage, which I am sure you already know, is to ignore further responses, and return another day with the slate wiped clean.
No problem, scoff away - your argument has been debunked, and you can laugh and jog on, but your post remains to be read for the faulty logic it offers, and mine for the dismantling of it.
roy - // Who are these people teaching young men that women are 'after it trumpets?
Whoever they are they should be sacked immediately. //
If you read my post at 13:54, you will see that I am not suggesting that someone teaches these attitudes in a class, but I do think that altered attitudes should be taught in class - starting at nursery level.
Whoever they are they should be sacked immediately. //
If you read my post at 13:54, you will see that I am not suggesting that someone teaches these attitudes in a class, but I do think that altered attitudes should be taught in class - starting at nursery level.
tigger - // Sadly, I don't think education will do anything to prevent abuse and murder if you're that way inclined. I've recently been watching Britain's Most Evil Killers and according to criminologists it makes no difference what your background is. Fascinating albeit harrowing. //
I am not for a minute suggesting that a psychopath will stop being a psychopath because someone tells him it's wrong, that is clearly not going to happen.
My point concerns the wider attitudes of society, which need to be changed, starting with someone in authority suggesting that the way women stop being attacked by policemen, bogus or genuine, is to bone up on the finer points of the arrest process, so they can stand in the street and argue it with confidence - before being arrested anyway for the further arrestable offence of resisting arrest.
e
I am not for a minute suggesting that a psychopath will stop being a psychopath because someone tells him it's wrong, that is clearly not going to happen.
My point concerns the wider attitudes of society, which need to be changed, starting with someone in authority suggesting that the way women stop being attacked by policemen, bogus or genuine, is to bone up on the finer points of the arrest process, so they can stand in the street and argue it with confidence - before being arrested anyway for the further arrestable offence of resisting arrest.
e
There has always been bad apples, and there always will be, and I'm afraid nothing is going to change that today or ever. You have to look out for yourself no matter male or female. Anyone who thinks that they or the police can be protected day or night is deluded. The police have a job protecting themselves at times.
teacake - what you say is of course true.
The point I am making is that we live in a society where women are expected to assume an additional level of responsibility for their personal safety, when men do not.
And that is because, as a society, we have advised women that the occupational risk of being attacked if out alone at night is on a par with getting wet if it rains.
Carry an umbrella? No? Then you got what you deserved then didn't you.
It's simply not acceptable that the initial police reaction is that women should be 'more careful', rather than the alternative, which is that boys should grow up knowing that treating women as objects of their 'uncontrollable' urges is simply not acceptable.
Let's shift the responsibility away from women, who are simply doing what men do every day and night, which is being able to walk the streets safely.
It's not complicated - it just needs an adjustment in attitudes, and obviously , judging by the link in the OP, the police would be a good place to start.
The point I am making is that we live in a society where women are expected to assume an additional level of responsibility for their personal safety, when men do not.
And that is because, as a society, we have advised women that the occupational risk of being attacked if out alone at night is on a par with getting wet if it rains.
Carry an umbrella? No? Then you got what you deserved then didn't you.
It's simply not acceptable that the initial police reaction is that women should be 'more careful', rather than the alternative, which is that boys should grow up knowing that treating women as objects of their 'uncontrollable' urges is simply not acceptable.
Let's shift the responsibility away from women, who are simply doing what men do every day and night, which is being able to walk the streets safely.
It's not complicated - it just needs an adjustment in attitudes, and obviously , judging by the link in the OP, the police would be a good place to start.
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