Women Need To Be Streetwise About The Powers Of Arrest And Learn Legal Process....apparently.

[sp1814]

Is the criticism currently being levelled at Commissioner Philip Allott justified, or is he simply speaking common sense?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58762029

I think few people, if confronted by a policeman would be sure of their legal footing. Seems like an example of victim-blaming.

[gness]

Andy. You’re twisting Wolf’s words.

[andy-hughes]

I don't believe I am, but let's see what Wolf says shall we.

[andy-hughes]

Wolf, I cross-posted with you, thank you for coming back.

I am not stupid enough not to know that there are thousands, maybe millions of women who are not upset by harassment, and can give as good as they get.

My argument is, the lack of consideration and respect behind it is bad for society as a whole.

Tolerance in the face of society's acceptance as 'the way things are ...' does not mean they are not wrong, and we would not be better without them.

It was 'the way things were when men were allowed to beat their wives with a stick no thicker than their thumb - but no-one today thinks that makes it acceptable.

Society improves by changing things that are fundamentally wrong, and that includes bad attitudes by one half of it towards the other half.

[wolf63]

I think that any change in attitudes needs to be done gradually.

I do think that serious sex offenders should be castrated.

[andy-hughes]

Wolf - On the issue of gradual change, we are in agreement, but the proverbial longest journey starts with the proverbial first step.

And to return to the OP - not having Police representatives spouting victim-blaming garbage like this would represent a good start.

[sp1814]

wolf63

//I think that any change in attitudes needs to be done gradually.//

!!!

Really - how gradually would you suggest?

[sp1814]

wolf63

douglas9401

//Seems to be more than a whiff of mansplaining in the air.//

At that point he wasn't pointing out the spelling mistake - not sure what your subsequent post meant to be honest.

[emmie]

changes can't come soon enough in my opinion, two women a week are killed in UK, they are mostly victims of their spouse or ex.

[naomi24]

I agree with Wolf. I find a 'Jack the Lad' type quite amusing, and easy to deal with and laugh off, but men who salivate over the charms of a girl sicken me. That is the territory of the dirty old man. The problem is the self-righteous (and that includes the vocal feminists who don't actually represent me or anyone I know), tend to jump on every word uttered perceiving ill intent where there is none, which to me suggests that their minds are in fact the dirtiest. I would hate society to reach a stage where flirting is automatically regarded as sexual harassment. Believe it or not, flirting can be fun for both men and women.

[murraymints]

we all need to be sensible..we have a duty of care to ourselves... I would NEVER in a million years allow myself to be "arrested" accosted or put into a car because a strange man in civvies flashes a card and tells me he can..SCREAM loud as you can attract attention ..and scram... as for the polis... well not meaning to sound disrespectful...BUT... "widnae trust yin as far as ah kin spit "

[naomi24]

//I would NEVER in a million years allow myself to be "arrested" accosted or put into a car because a strange man in civvies flashes a card and tells me he can//

Neither would I, Minty. Likewise, I wouldn't stop on a dark, isolated road if a car flagged me down - even a police car. They'd have to wait until I could pull into a service station or some other brightly lit and busy area.

[murraymints]

ditto Naomi.. it happened to me in London once..in a car.. was pursued by unmarked vehicle trying to flag me down... no way would I stop...pre mobile phone days...pulled into a service station well lit with lots of cars and lorries around...the car sped past and made no further attempts to intercept me... dread to think who it was or why ? clearly up to no good

[sp1814]

naomi24

What does a 'Jack the Lad' type do that you find amusing?

Flirting is fun - no doubt about that, but there are shade between flirting and creepiness that need to be acknowledged.

Some would say that Jack the Lad behaviour encompasses catcalling - like from a building site, "Smile luv..." etc

Is that what you're talking about?

How about when a fella leans out of a van and wolf whistles a 15 year old girl?

Or lads who might give a girl a pat on the bum as she squeezes past him in a nightclub?

Or a crowd of drunken lads on a night out who implore a woman sitting on night bus to "get her tits out for the lads".

I agree with that the self-righteous need to chill - but at the same time, we should all recognise when it's right to modify our behaviour.

[sp1814]

murraymints

//I would NEVER in a million years allow myself to be "arrested" accosted or put into a car because a strange man in civvies flashes a card and tells me he can//

Best not try that if you're black though!

Things can go south very quickly after that.

;-)

[naomi24]

Oh dear. Who'd a guessed that once again SP would shoehorn race into a discussion that has nothing to do with race?

Did you want me to answer those point by point, SP. Do you not understand that a Jack the Lad isn't coarse or crude?

[sp1814]

No you really don’t have to naomi24. Those were rhetorical questions, and as for the point about race - I think it’s valid when discussing resisting arrest.

And I bet you didn’t think it’d take 175 posts for me to get there!

;-)

I think we may now have wrung every last drop out of this thread.

Thanks for your answers. I may not agree with you but I appreciate your input.

Have a good one.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // I find a 'Jack the Lad' type quite amusing, and easy to deal with and laugh off ... //

And so do millions of other women, secure in their personalities and their abilities to deal with such nonsense.

But what about the vulnerable, who find that 'Jack The Lad' is morphing into a sinister problem making her feel scared and alone?

Society should not be judged on how it lauds its strong women, but how it takes steps to protect its weak ones.

[naomi24]

Should we ban jokes, AH? Even the clean ones?

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // I find a 'Jack the Lad' type quite amusing, and easy to deal with and laugh off ... //

And so do millions of other women, who are confident enough to deal with such behaviour.

But what about those who can't? The shy and insecure women who find that 'Jack The Lad' is gaining friends, and their approach is going beyond 'ladism' and growing into something more frightening and she is unable to deal with it?

Society should not be judged on how loudly it lauds its strong women, but on how well it supports its weaker ones.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Should we ban jokes, AH? Even the clean ones? //

I have no idea what that means.

What does joking have to do with making women feel uncomfortable and threatened.