Facts Unclear

[Sqad]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10491929/British-man-arrested-woman-claims-raped-United-Airlines-flight-London.html

I don't know the full facts but the only explanation that I can come up with was that she was so drunk that she didn't realise that she had been raped, until she awakened the following morning.

Any other suggestions?

[roadman]

Sqad what do you mean why lol the answer to why is just because and thats that lol

[davebro]

leave it alone - just close the thread!

[TheChair]

"She complained to cabin crew of the United Airlines flight saying a man had forced her to have sex with him, according to The Sun."
Where does it say she waited until morning?

[andy-hughes]

Stickybottle - // At the risk of pre judging on face value this sounds like somebody enjoyed the thrill of a mid flight tryst but post coitus had instant regret and shame at her behaviour(maybe he indicated they would never become an item etc?) and got revenge //

Pre-judge away, you're in the majority by a long way on here.

Of course the woman, who has never met this man before, is going to enjoy late-night rumpy and then be devastated that he is not going to be her life partner moving forward.

I can't see any argument against that - apart from a dose of rationality, but as we know, we are looking for anything and everything to avoid the notion that she might actually have a case here.


// Or that is certainly how his lawyer would present it //

Of course he would - that's his job, and that's part of due process.

But that doesn't make him right - except on here.

Like i said, if it goes to trial, the defendant will be dreaming he gets a jury who think like you, he can go home on the first day.

[andy-hughes]

Sqad - // I asked why the acrimony NOT why did she not scream. //

I have already explained my 'acrimony' such as it is.

I cannot explain the thinking of the majority, for obvious reasons.

[naomi24]

roadman, //"Prudie spend much time in first class do you?" //

I do - or at least I did before Covid pulled the plug on normal life. What's your point?

Someone mentioned 'Sisterhood' - and that's the second time that's been mentioned recently when the ladies weren't supporting another woman. What is that all about? Are we supposed to support other women regardless? I, for one, don't.

[Stickybottle]

andy-hughes
Sqad - // I asked why the acrimony NOT why did she not scream. //

I have already explained my 'acrimony' such as it is.

I cannot explain the thinking of the majority, for obvious reasons.
————
In this instance
On face value
You will probably find that would also be reflected by a jury

We will have to await the investigation though

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Someone mentioned 'Sisterhood' - and that's the second time that's been mentioned recently when the ladies weren't supporting another woman. What is that all about? Are we supposed to support other women regardless? I, for one, don't. //

The mention on this thread was by me.

And no, women are not supposed to support other women regardless' - but a little mention of hoping that the woman in this case has not actually been raped, and if she has, that her rapist is convicted - might have been nice.

Instead of finding seven ways to Sunday why she must be a slapper calling foul, which is what is being offered by virtually everyone on here to one degree or another.

[Ken4155]

"Because the vast majority of rape victims are terrified into complete silence..."
Maybe true, Andy, but the vast majority of rapes do not take place mid-flight while other passengers are snoozing. The vast majority of rapes take place when just the rapist and the victim are present.

[Stickybottle]

AH
I refuse to believe that you are either too dense, or too much of a neanderthal, not to see that as what may have happened here.
———-
I refuse to believe you are also too dense or naïve to see what may have happened here

[andy-hughes]

Stickybottle - // In this instance
On face value
You will probably find that would also be reflected by a jury //

Do you know how a jury trial works?

Vast amounts of evidence for and against are argued by people of fearsome intelligence to allow the jury to make a decision about what they believe to be the truth.

Face value never ever comes remotely near to a court room, and nor should it.

If, and God knows it's a big if, the jury is not comprised of people who make up their minds based on a link and their own deeply incised prejudices towards women, then a fair trial and evidence heard, will get to the bottom of this.

But in the mean time, let's make sure we stretch our scenarios beyond breaking point to ensure that we can tell ourselves that the woman is a tart who got what she deserved, and the man must be utterly innocent, when we actually get round to mentioning his part in this - but let's not and say we did anyway.

[Milo2]

Andy Hughes, if you see the woman as a victim that seems to me to imply that you think the man is guilty before the investigation is complete or it goes to trial?

[andy-hughes]

Stickybottle - // I refuse to believe you are also too dense or naïve to see what may have happened here //

If you care to read back through my posts, you will see that more than once I have confirmed that it is entirely possible that this lady is making up events for her own ends, I am certainly not naive enough to think otherwise.

What I take issue with is the efforts that the majority have gone to, to ensure that it absolutely must be her who is making it up, and not that she has actually been raped as she claims.

We have no facts, but we do have confirmation that the police are investigating, and they don;t commence investigations without sufficient initial evidence to confirm that there is an investigation to be completed.

And they will have need more than the word of an embarrassed / jilted / mischievous / vengeful / attention-seeking / drunken / man-hating (perm any or all to suit your opinion) slapper to get things moving.

[naomi24]

AH, //finding seven ways to Sunday why she must be a slapper calling foul, which is what is being offered by virtually everyone on here to one degree or another. //

Who called her a slapper - or is your imagination is getting the better of you again?

[andy-hughes]

Milo - // Andy Hughes, if you see the woman as a victim that seems to me to imply that you think the man is guilty before the investigation is complete or it goes to trial? //

I don't see the woman as a 'victim' at all, and I have pointed out several times that I am happy to believe that she may be making this up.

What I am willing to do, and I am entirely in the minority here, is to see her as someone who is unlikely to make such a serious accusation without evidence to back it up, and avoid a charge of wasting police time.

To reads this thread, it is clear that a woman who cries rape is doing so for an interesting and long list of reasons, none of which appear to include the possibility that she actually was raped, and would quite like to get something done about it.

[naomi24]

AH, //we do have confirmation that the police are investigating, and they don;t commence investigations without sufficient initial evidence to confirm that there is an investigation to be completed. ..

They're investigating a complaint - which they are obliged to do. That's all.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Who called her a slapper - or is your imagination is getting the better of you again? //

No-one did, but no-one except me and roadman appear to be entertaining the thought that she might be genuine.

So if everyone else can embroider, so can I.

[Milo2]

I certainly haven’t decided whether her allegation is true or not and I haven’t decided whether the man is innocent or guilty. I would like to wait for the outcome of the investigation and trial if one takes place.

[naomi24]

Embroidery isn't your forte, AH. The inevitable knots in your yarns stand out a mile.