NHS - whay do they hate old people?

[R1Geezer]

http://news.sky.com/s...mns_Patient_Treatment
Generally I'm a fan of the NHS, well the idea and the intention anyway. Some of the day to day running leaves a lot to be desired but anyway, why do they seem to fail the elderly so spectacularly? It's not just a few isolated cases it just seems like institutional agism. Anyone got a closer insight into this?

[ChickPea57]

The elderly cost the NHS a disproportionate amount of its budget- I suspect there's a kind of unconscious resentment there.

And they are largely a group without a voice- they're not as appealing as sick children, say. People in general do not want to dwell on the inevitable degeneration, decay and death that is everyone's fate, so they are easily forgotten.

[LoftyLottie]

The old system where nurses nurses, senior nurses made sure nurses nursed and Matrons oversaw everything and their presence was known (they were always about) worked. I saw the Ward Sister actually on the wards about twice in three weeks when I was with my mother. She spoke to me once on the day my Mum died. I can only presume she was doing paperwork for the rest of the time.

There is more technology involved now and that requires nurses to be more knowledgeable than they were, but this should not be at the expense of 'caring duties' All caring duties are equally important.

I don't fully understand Paul what you mean by she needs the experience of 'nursing'. More senior nurses have more responsibility on their shoulders and they are paid for it. They have more knowledge of todays medical technology, etc, but they should not forget that they are primarily 'nurses' and not doctors. And if there are staff shortages they should get stuck in to the menial tasks too without grumbling.

I am afraid that that is what life is like for most of us nowadays. There is no money about to have a defined job as such, we all have to get stuck in and do work of two people in lots of cases.

[R1Geezer]

yes joan must be difficult to spot the problem when they are swimming in there own pi55 and sh1t! perlease!

[pa___ul3]

actually Rowan, her next piece of coursework is a project on team building between levels, she's asked me to help her come up with ideas and that one was sat right under her nose, I'll suggest that.
I know the way I've worded things portrays her as maybe thinking she's 'too good for the healtcare side' but it's absolutely not like that, some of the stories she comes back with about bodily fluids, pressure sores etc really knock me sick but it's that side she gets a lot of satisfaction from.

[youngmafbog]

I'd say they fail the working man (or woman). It is virtually impossible for me to see a GP unless I take a day off work and when I get there, in non day hours it is usually jammed with old g*ts. Why cant they go during the day - same for Supermarkets.

[rowanwitch]

Pa_ul3 good for her...maybe using education as a method for changing ward philosophy would be a good line to take...they still love that sort of stuff at the unis

[ummmm]

When my Uncle was in he couldn't move his arms at all and need help walking. They put food in front of him and took away again uneaten. They left him sitting on the toilet for over an hour ignoring the cord pull. I also caught body lice while in there.

The nurses hated me and my sister because we went in everyday in shifts...and they didn't like it. They weren't offering the care he needed though. Or the other patients who, like Murray said, ended up relying on us as their buzzers went ignored.

There is way too much time with nurses standing round the nurse station talking...I watched them everyday for over months.

[ummmm]

He caught body lice...lol...not me :-)

[pa___ul3]

lottie, by needing the experience of 'nursing' I meant treating patients, dressing wounds, taking obs, doing the medicine rounds and being on hand to assist in emergencies (from my understanding).. essentially the type of thing for which she'll truly be judged when (hopefully) she gets a job. Confidence comes with competence and the two can only really come from experience. I know there's a massive side to nursing that involves the one on one care but that's what comes naturally to her and can't, so much, be taught.

[LoftyLottie]

YMF. Very intelligent posting - not. Perhaps old people have to go see their GP's because they are ill and old people tend to get ill more than young people. They can't pick the days and times they get ill to fit in with younger worker people.

One day you will be an old git instead of a young git ;o)

[LoftyLottie]

I do understand Paul and am not getting at you or your lady - honestly! I think the system is just all wrong and it seriously did work better years ago. Hospitals were actually the best place to go when you were ill. Nowadays - I'm afraid I have very serious doubts, especially if you fall into the vulnerable elderly category.

[rowanwitch]

R1Geezer.....not institutionalised hatred but when it is too soul destroying to care...for your own sanity you tend to stop caring...for those of us with a sense of self preservation it was the time to get out...I wish I'd gone into nurse education....to try to change the system by influencing new learners before they become cynical

The situation is wrong.....but stirring up antipathy to the groups you need on side is counter productive and Elderly care is a speciality in its own right...hard to recruit to because of the preconceptions of those already in other parts of the profession....still the unions voted against a free market which would have allowed trusts to pay more to nurses doing jobs no-one else would take on...

[LoftyLottie]

What really got me ummmm was that at changeover time (which took ages because there was no continuity in the rotaring system) nothing was done on the ward and patients could be crying out and buzzing buzzers, etc. They looked very miffed too if you wanted to talk to them at that time.

And ummmm, yes I expect the nurses hated me too for the same reason. They gave my Mum a room with a private shower room and loo. I moved in!! (but I had to sleep on a grotty old chair)

[netibiza]

I wish all the youngsters on here would remember that it is the older generation (who apparently smell of wee) are the ones who paid into the system most of their lives, so that the youngster of today can enjoy freebies! it is the older generation who deserve care and attention!!

[ummmm]

Grandad's a private room now...I think because there's too many of us. He hasn't spent a night on his own yet...

[LoftyLottie]

There was only me ummmm. It would have been nice to have others to share it, but there is noone else :o(

Agree Neti!!

[rowanwitch]

current changeovers are silly and waste ages we had bedside handovers involving the patient where possible where the senior nurse who'd been looking after that group of patients only handed that group over... then the care assistants and junior nurses got on with the care alongside those from the earlier shift while the senior nurses handed over a brief summary of their end so that they would all know what was going on this meant safe handovers and patient care was able to continue

[pa___ul3]

lottie, I know it was nothing personal, no worries, R1 got my back up suggesting it's deliberate, I'm obviously going to stand up for her there!
There's no doubt that the care levels in hospitals nowadays are insufficient, from what my gf tells me, the nurses work far too hard, far too often and many are throroughly demoralised. Those going into nursing now know this but still want to make a difference where they can, I think she's nuts but at the same time I'm very proud.

[starone]

I hate this thread, mainly because I am an old person and if I read everything I shall know what I have coming to me. Perhaps the thread on euthanasia will suit me better.

[LoftyLottie]

Me too Starbuck! I really worry about it actually.