News1 min ago
NHS - whay do they hate old people?
http://news.sky.com/s...mns_Patient_Treatment
Generally I'm a fan of the NHS, well the idea and the intention anyway. Some of the day to day running leaves a lot to be desired but anyway, why do they seem to fail the elderly so spectacularly? It's not just a few isolated cases it just seems like institutional agism. Anyone got a closer insight into this?
Generally I'm a fan of the NHS, well the idea and the intention anyway. Some of the day to day running leaves a lot to be desired but anyway, why do they seem to fail the elderly so spectacularly? It's not just a few isolated cases it just seems like institutional agism. Anyone got a closer insight into this?
Answers
do you want to have a think about your maths R1, if feeding them was the only concern, then they'd be fed, they have many many other duties. It is simple algebra and the work capacity of X nurses < the work required to adequately care for N patients in too many cases. If there are individual nurses who do put their feet up while some patients are wetting themselves,...
11:13 Tue 15th Feb 2011
<<....still the unions voted against a free market which would have allowed trusts to pay more to nurses doing jobs no-one else would take on>>
A free market doesn't work in one direction only. To pay those extra wages the trusts are going to need extra money from somewhere - higher taxes anyone? No that's not free market. Fees paid by the patients or their relatives is the free market answer - no fee, no treatment if taken to extreme.
The problem with the elderly is that it's a thankless task - well OK the patient and/or the relatives may offer thanks, but thankless in the sense that what you are doing is going to end in failure, sooner or later. and probably sooner. Your patient is not going to get well again, not going to get cured.
A free market doesn't work in one direction only. To pay those extra wages the trusts are going to need extra money from somewhere - higher taxes anyone? No that's not free market. Fees paid by the patients or their relatives is the free market answer - no fee, no treatment if taken to extreme.
The problem with the elderly is that it's a thankless task - well OK the patient and/or the relatives may offer thanks, but thankless in the sense that what you are doing is going to end in failure, sooner or later. and probably sooner. Your patient is not going to get well again, not going to get cured.
Foundation trusts would have been able to decide the priorities...new CT scanner or more nurses in elderly care ...or more OTs to help the patients get home quickly before they become too institutionalised to be able to...
And dzug2 many elderly people do get well and if not well enough to go home at least to a non acute setting ....you can't cure old age if that is what you mean but if you can get through an acute episode its just as rewarding...sometimes more so because it will have taken a lot of effort and teamwork to get there..
And dzug2 many elderly people do get well and if not well enough to go home at least to a non acute setting ....you can't cure old age if that is what you mean but if you can get through an acute episode its just as rewarding...sometimes more so because it will have taken a lot of effort and teamwork to get there..
"The problem with the elderly is that it's a thankless task - well OK the patient and/or the relatives may offer thanks, but thankless in the sense that what you are doing is going to end in failure, sooner or later"
Thank goodness that many carers genuinely don't feel like that though. Do nurses feel like that in hospices for terminally ill children - I don't think so. Some people get real rewards just from making sure that elderly patients have a good end to their life and are cared for until the end. Just making someone comfortable and having a chat with them can be rewarding. Certainly not thankless. And if you can do that then it's not failure.
Thank goodness that many carers genuinely don't feel like that though. Do nurses feel like that in hospices for terminally ill children - I don't think so. Some people get real rewards just from making sure that elderly patients have a good end to their life and are cared for until the end. Just making someone comfortable and having a chat with them can be rewarding. Certainly not thankless. And if you can do that then it's not failure.
“The elderly cost the NHS a disproportionate amount of its budget...”
Quite so, ChickPea. And most of the elderly have made a disproportionately high level of contributions to the service. Somebody who has worked for fifty years has paid in considerably more than a 25 year old. However, that is not the point. The NHS is supposed to be there for people who need it and, like it or not, older people are more likely to require its services than younger people.
Well, youngmalfblog, you'd have trouble seeing your GP outside working hours if you were registered at my practice. They operate Monday to Friday 8am to 5pm (except Thursday when they close at 1pm); they close for ninety minutes for lunch every day, and will not, under any circumstances, make an appointment more than two days hence. So if the doctor asks you to return in a week for a follow up you cannot make the appointment as you walk out, you have to phone up or visit to make the appointment five day later. This ensures they meet their target of all patients being given an appointment within two days. It is apparently beyond their wits to sort out those who need to see a doctor quickly and those who do not.
The surgery has six GP “partners” and a few locums, three or four receptionists, a “Practice Manager” (a misnomer if ever there was one) and a number of nurses who weigh babies and run clinics to stop people eating too much or smoking. And they all have to go for their lunch at the same time. Despite all these numbers of medics, if you need your blood pressure taken you have to do it yourself on a machine in the waiting room, and then make an appointment (no more than two days hence, natch) to see the doctor with the printout. The practice does not discriminate against its older patients. Their system is not flexible enough and they are not open long enough for them to do so.
Quite so, ChickPea. And most of the elderly have made a disproportionately high level of contributions to the service. Somebody who has worked for fifty years has paid in considerably more than a 25 year old. However, that is not the point. The NHS is supposed to be there for people who need it and, like it or not, older people are more likely to require its services than younger people.
Well, youngmalfblog, you'd have trouble seeing your GP outside working hours if you were registered at my practice. They operate Monday to Friday 8am to 5pm (except Thursday when they close at 1pm); they close for ninety minutes for lunch every day, and will not, under any circumstances, make an appointment more than two days hence. So if the doctor asks you to return in a week for a follow up you cannot make the appointment as you walk out, you have to phone up or visit to make the appointment five day later. This ensures they meet their target of all patients being given an appointment within two days. It is apparently beyond their wits to sort out those who need to see a doctor quickly and those who do not.
The surgery has six GP “partners” and a few locums, three or four receptionists, a “Practice Manager” (a misnomer if ever there was one) and a number of nurses who weigh babies and run clinics to stop people eating too much or smoking. And they all have to go for their lunch at the same time. Despite all these numbers of medics, if you need your blood pressure taken you have to do it yourself on a machine in the waiting room, and then make an appointment (no more than two days hence, natch) to see the doctor with the printout. The practice does not discriminate against its older patients. Their system is not flexible enough and they are not open long enough for them to do so.
We live in a commercially youth orientated age that has little regard for the elderly because their value is not perceived.
Were they more vociferous and active as part of the The Big Society, contributing their skills as mentors they might create more visibility for themselves and more rewarding lives.
Of course no one should have to do anything to be valued.
But, that said, look at how the right to vote is denied to prisoners - and sanctioned by the majority of the nation.
When you exclude any part of society you invite your own exclusion. Young or Elderly.
If you really want to do something about such issues, check out 38 Degrees
http://38degrees.org.uk/
and prevail upon them for support.
Is it really fair to complain about an issue if you don't care enough about it to become an activist?
The first is a moaner - the second is a champion of injustice.
The remedy is available to all of us - as part of the Big Society if we will join together and use the campaigning power of the internet to change the injustices we fell passionately about.
For global issues - check out:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/
You don't have to be young to be vigorous.
Were they more vociferous and active as part of the The Big Society, contributing their skills as mentors they might create more visibility for themselves and more rewarding lives.
Of course no one should have to do anything to be valued.
But, that said, look at how the right to vote is denied to prisoners - and sanctioned by the majority of the nation.
When you exclude any part of society you invite your own exclusion. Young or Elderly.
If you really want to do something about such issues, check out 38 Degrees
http://38degrees.org.uk/
and prevail upon them for support.
Is it really fair to complain about an issue if you don't care enough about it to become an activist?
The first is a moaner - the second is a champion of injustice.
The remedy is available to all of us - as part of the Big Society if we will join together and use the campaigning power of the internet to change the injustices we fell passionately about.
For global issues - check out:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/
You don't have to be young to be vigorous.
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