Death Penalty

[Theland]

In my opinion, only hanging murderers will make us safe from knife wielding thugs.
Two dead and two injured in Milton Keynes and one dead in Scarborough yesterday.
Hardly a day goes by without another stabbing murder.
Hanging the culprits would deter these scum.
What do you think?

[pixie374]

That doesn't seem to happen though, theland. And surely a punishment should fit a crime? It is not actually meant to reflect other people's possible behaviour, but the criminal themself.

[vulcan42]

Theland " the word got around "many years ago, it made no difference, murder was still being committed.

[THECORBYLOON]

RETRO, prior to 1998, multiple murders were counted as a single murder whereas now, each one is counted and murders have been included with other homicides since 1972.

These two factors make it difficult to compare murder rates pre- and post-abolition.

[Canary42]

/// It may not deter but it will cut re-offending ///

So we introduce it for all crimes then ?

[Spicerack]

When DNA testing was introduced in America they caught some vile murderers.
Then they had to release the men who had been convicted of those crimes and were awaiting their turn on death row.
Imagine standing on that trapdoor knowing you were innocent.

[jno]

it happened to a few people, which is why it was abolished. And it continued to happen, but at least the innocent were no longer hanged.(Though nowadays insisting you're innocent just stops you getting parole.)

[Barsel]

It seems the last men to be hung in GB was in 1964 which is 55yrs ago. It would be interesting to know how many murders have been carried out since then and how many were carried out in the 55yrs prior to 1964.

[Spicerack]

I would be amazed if we didn't have many more murders now.
But there are many reasons for that apart from the abolition of the DP.

[Barsel]

I think the trend of how murders are carried out has changed. At one time it was mainly guns, whereas now it seems to be mostly knives.

[jim360]

I assume you'd be more interested in the murder rate than the number of actual murders. But it's difficult to tell, at least partly because the way the data has been gathered has changed over the years. Being up-front, there does appear to have been an overall rise since the mid 1960s, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to show a causal link.

And, besides, the simple point is that the death penalty isn't really about deterrent. No amount of harsh punishment will stop "spur-of-the-moment" crimes, or crimes of people who had no regard for their life anyway. How many mass school shootings in the US end with the death of the perpetrator on the scene? Too late, as they've already done the damage, but death was no deterrent to them. And, as I said before on this thread, history proves that the death penalty is wholly ineffective as a deterrent no matter the crime.

[david small]

But totally effective for stopping repeat killings. Jim360.

[davebro]

Another aspect of the DP is the attitude of juries. If you had a jury with some members strictly anti-DP then they might fail to convict on otherwise overwhelming evidence. Bit like the HoC frustrating Brexit!

It's a futile discussion really because it's never going to be brought back.

[retrocop]

It is not as though the judiciary would go round marauding the streets looking for people to execute. Unlike the savages who kill to gain street cred with their gang peers the judiciary are not in competition with each other. As we are told we live in a civilised society there is no place in it for these savages if they do not wish to conform to it.
It’s about time consideration is given to the victims first and the sword of Damocles is a tool to be used should anyone wish to abuse the rules of our ‘civilised society.
At the end of the day it is an individuals choice if they act in a matter whereby they are executed after due process of law and forensic examination.
That is something they deny their victims.

[emmie]

davebro
i believe you are right, they won't bring it back. too many miscarriages of justice. But there are times i wish they would.

[GymLadTim]

"Doin anythin to look cool on da gram/dese kidz would rather get caught with a skeng than without one man".

I thought I would start with a lyric from one of my favourite songs. This goes to the heart of the issue - if you want to reduce knife crime you first have to deal with the issue that many young people would rather run the risk of being arrested for carrying a knife than take the risk of not carrying one when they need it.

Kids as young as primary school age are carrying knives. Not because they are "scum" but because in many of our inner city areas it’s not safe to go out without a weapon to protect yourself.

Let’s face it, the death penalty is not coming back in Britain. It’s not a deterrent, innocent people inevitably get killed, it’s barbaric, it would destroy Britain’s reputation and damage international relations – just not going to happen, the thought of killing young people might get some our your mouths salivating - especially if they are ethnic minorities but forget it aint happening.

The reasons for knife crime are complex and not easily solved, poverty, dissociation, crumbling mental health services, incompetent police services. It's not an easy fix that's for sure.

I started with a song lyric so I will end with one from Leona Lewis:

“the bridge we burnt is being built again/it's leading to a new beginning/and it may never be the way it was/and that's because I’m talking about/forgiveness forgiveness forgiveness forgiveness”

[spathiphyllum]

"I think murder is wrong."

Yeah but it wouldn't be murder if the death penalty was legal.

[spathiphyllum]

"it’s not safe to go out without a weapon to protect yourself.
"


That ideology is the issue, means everyone is carrying a knife, so scared that they end up pulling it out for the most tiny squabbles. That ideology gets kids killed. More chances to be stabbed by ur own knife if you take one out.

[Theland]

I am guessing here, but if somebody is stabbed, they probably don't even feel much pain, but they die.

If only word got around that hitting somebody with something blunt would be painful, none lethal, and no death for the victim, maybe a big bruise.

What blunt weapon?

A vapour pen? A torch? A piece of brush pole or any piece of wood?

Still a criminal offence, but non lethal.

Just a thought.

[jno]

totally effective for stopping repeat killings

not the US experience - one dies, another picks up the baton.

[hereIam]

I definitely wish they would bring it back for murdering children.