forced and arranged marriages

[nailit]

Given the recent media coverage of kids as young as 5 been forced into muslim marriages can anyone tell me, is this practice condoned in the koran or is it a cultural thing?
Also, do people who practice this kind of thing have any sense of love and affection?
I dont want an anti islam thread here, Im just curious as to why anyone would want to marry a 5 year old girl. Im well aware that in years gone by that child marriage existed in the UK. Still cant get my head around it though, just because it once happened here.
Thanks.

[naomi24]

Boxy, the more I think about your friend, the more bizarre that situation becomes. Don’t you find it odd that a man in his 30s wanted his parents to vet a bride – someone he had never met - for him? I simply can’t imagine any normal man being so weak and so dependent upon his parents. If I were the girl in question, his strength of mind – or lack of it – would be the deciding factor in my refusal of his proposal.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Far be it from me to stick up for Skyplus, but it seems pretty clear that he was using the drugs thing to make a point about not all questions being answerable in a simple binary yes/no way.

He then gave an example very similar to the 'Have you stopped beating your wife yet - yes or no?" question. The point being, the question makes an assumption that the person being questioned does - or has - beaten their wife. If you are restricted to a yes or no response, it precludes the response one would hope to recieve of "I have never beaten my wife, therefore the question is redundant". I don't think he accused Naomi of being a drug addict, he was refusing to answer what he (whether rightly or wrongly) believes is a question that is more nuanced than 'yes' or 'no'.

He also makes some reasonable points about the age of consent. It is absolutely true that the age of consent differs from country to country and it is also true that any age of consent is necessarily an arbitrary line in the sand based on a number of factors including averages relating to physical and emotional maturity and doubtless societal factors. This does not therefore prove puberty is a better measure, however.

I don't find that agreeing with him on these points makes his argument condoning the marriage of a just pubescent girl (and let's be honest here, it's always girls we're talking about, never just pubescent boys) any more persuasive. The argument he has presented is based on a culturally-entrenched view of women as property rather than autonomous individuals.

Unfortunately, when you have a religion that claims that it is literally and irrefutably true, it often means you are forced to defend the indefensible; creationists defending the scientifically unsupported notion of six day creation or Muslims defending the marriage of young girls.

[naomi24]

Waldo, from past experience I have my doubts that Keyplus’ choice of example wasn’t an intentionally pointed one, but you could be right. Nevertheless, however ambiguous readers may feel Keyplus’ post to me may have been, there can be no doubt of the meaning of his message on the same subject – and more – to Birdie.

//One more thing, ignore my little BIRDIE 1971 posts as he is a drug addict or dementia patient as you may notice from his posts.//

[jomifl]

Since skyplus never says what he believes, it is not possible to 'stick up' for him. If he could be a little less disingenuous in his replies they might have more weight and he might gain a little more respect.
Can't wait to hear about the crow!

[vetuste_ennemi]

Come on, Keyplus. Tell us about the crow.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Naomi, yes, that is not really ambiguous, is it?

[naomi24]

No, not really Waldo.

Jom and VE, I suspect you're going to have a long wait to hear the story of the crow.

[keyplus90]

Ummm- So where exactly in my post it says that I was referring to Naomi? Or else again as I said “there” if “anyone who does not agree” is equal to Naomi.

Naomi – People who read posts can tell, OK, then show me in that posts or the original post that I said that you were a drug addict. Or again unless your other name is “anyone”, then of course I can’t do anything about that and I really don’t give a damn.

////Waldo - Far be it from me to stick up for Skyplus, but it seems pretty clear that he was using the drugs thing to make a point about not all questions being answerable in a simple binary yes/no way.///

Thank You Waldo at least you had courage to tell the truth and that is the reason I have always respected your views regardless whether I agree or not. The only problem now is that by doing that you have gone against Naomi “the ever truthful” and I am sure she would not let you get away with that totally unacceptable attitude.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, //Waldo at least you had courage to tell the truth and that is the reason I have always respected your views regardless whether I agree or not. The only problem now is that by doing that you have gone against Naomi “the ever truthful” and I am sure she would not let you get away with that totally unacceptable attitude.//

We know it isn't entirely true that you've always respected Waldo's views, but we won't drag up even more of your unsavoury history. That aside, if you stop ranting for just a moment and read the posts properly, you will see that Waldo and I have already discussed the issue.

Now, why don't you tell VE and Jom the story of the crow. They're very eager to hear it.

[jomifl]

Trying to make trouble between the infidels Keyplus? the old divide and conquer ploy from page one of the good muslim's guide to world domination.

[chaptazbru]

The marriage was consumated when the girl was 9 - disgusting !!!!! Poor child.

[naomi24]

Jom, he’s clearly never noticed that, unlike the religious, atheists are honest enough to disagree if they feel it’s warranted.

[jomifl]

Yes Naomi, it is quite astonishing how the believers all huddle together not daring to criticise other believers of whatever persuasion no matter how appalling their views or deeds. I guess the doors of heaven are a lot wider than we have been led to believe :-)

[naomi24]

Yes, indeed. I expect the doors would need to be pretty wide if, in death, they're all going to remain shoulder to shoulder just as they did in life. ;o)

[vetuste_ennemi]

What about the crow, Keyplus?

[keyplus90]

There was once a crow that believed that he was the cleverest of all. Crows are well known for stealing food where people will have food outside.

I will leave crow story otherwise we would be heading towards another 500 posts thread and I know many people (including myself) have other better things to do and posting here on a website is not a full time paid job for them. But people who claim to be intelligent and to have a very good memory know what I am talking about.

[vulcan]

perhaps keyplus was thinking of this one.

The Crow and the Raven


A CROW was jealous of the Raven, because he was considered a bird
of good omen and always attracted the attention of men, who noted
by his flight the good or evil course of future events. Seeing
some travelers approaching, the Crow flew up into a tree, and
perching herself on one of the branches, cawed as loudly as she
could. The travelers turned towards the sound and wondered what
it foreboded, when one of them said to his companion, "Let us
proceed on our journey, my friend, for it is only the caw of a
crow, and her cry, you know, is no omen."


Those who assume a character which does not belong to them, only
make themselves ridiculous.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, you resurrected the issue of calling people drug addicts – nobody else - and it backfired - so if you’re angry, you have only yourself to blame. I suspect that if you stuck to discussing the subject in hand rather than continually attempting to shoot the messenger by any means you see fit, your blood pressure would benefit greatly – as would your reputation.

[sith123]

naomi, i said that some people do it, but i would personally not. its as simple as that. but personally i would not do that. some do however i would not.

i mean, if you cannot understand that than this thread is going nowhere.

[naomi24]

Sith, The question I asked you was 'Do you agree with it. Yes or no?'

I take it that's a 'no' then.