Crosswords2 mins ago
Does Islam Have Anything To Offer The World?
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We have been told by a Muslim ABer that the people of Islam are coming to the west, not for a better life, but to show us ‘the way’. Most of the major problems the world is currently experiencing undoubtedly involve Muslim nations, and if that’s ‘the way’ they want to show us, it's not terribly enticing, so just what does Islam have to offer the world? As far as I can see, nothing whatsoever.
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I have no objections to mosques in the UK as long as they are built in the local vernacular style. As for halal slaughter, as long a the animal is stunned before being killed i can't see anything wrong with it. In principle it is unsound since it is impossible to drain all the blood from a carcass anyway so it is fairly pointless. In conventional slaughter carcasses are drained of blood as much as possible immediately after death anyway.
@ Jom - But this is kind of the fundamental point.
UK law mandates that all animals are stunned prior to slaughter, using a captive bolt, electrical or gas stunning process - Except where religious sensibilities forbid it.Both the Jewish and Muslim communities claim this exemption. Certainly as far as the Muslim community is concerned, the issue centres around the stunning process and the notion that the stunning could cause the animal to die prior to being exsanguinated - such meat would be considered Haram - forbidden.
So both Shechita and Halal slaughter methods do not include stunning the animal prior to cutting its throat. Again, at least as far as the Muslim community is concerned, there are differences of religious opinion over whether stunning is acceptable - some scholars think it is OK, other scholars most definitely do not. On balance though, you can expect that an animal slaughtered in the UK by either the Halal or Schechita method is not stunned prior to slaughter.
And this really bothers me - because abbatoirs are increasingly slaughtering all animals via a Halal method to save on costs and time - but only those animals slaughtered in this fashion destined for muslim outlets will automatically be labelled as such. Meat destined for normal large scale butchers outlets, such as the supermarkets, may well take meat slaughtered via the Halal method - but not labelled as such. This deprives those consumers who want the animals who provide their meat to be stunned first from making an active choice and is wrong.
I want the animals that provide my meat to be stunned first, as being the most humane way of killing the animals that provide my food - short of becoming a vegetarian, which I have no wish to do, this is the very least we should do, along with ensuring that rearing conditions are also as humane as possible.
This religious nonsense that deems meat somehow impure because it may have died just prior to being bled invades our standards of humane treatment of animals, and is wrong. This is an example of a religious freedom trampling all over secular logic and rationality, and I think should be resisted.
UK law mandates that all animals are stunned prior to slaughter, using a captive bolt, electrical or gas stunning process - Except where religious sensibilities forbid it.Both the Jewish and Muslim communities claim this exemption. Certainly as far as the Muslim community is concerned, the issue centres around the stunning process and the notion that the stunning could cause the animal to die prior to being exsanguinated - such meat would be considered Haram - forbidden.
So both Shechita and Halal slaughter methods do not include stunning the animal prior to cutting its throat. Again, at least as far as the Muslim community is concerned, there are differences of religious opinion over whether stunning is acceptable - some scholars think it is OK, other scholars most definitely do not. On balance though, you can expect that an animal slaughtered in the UK by either the Halal or Schechita method is not stunned prior to slaughter.
And this really bothers me - because abbatoirs are increasingly slaughtering all animals via a Halal method to save on costs and time - but only those animals slaughtered in this fashion destined for muslim outlets will automatically be labelled as such. Meat destined for normal large scale butchers outlets, such as the supermarkets, may well take meat slaughtered via the Halal method - but not labelled as such. This deprives those consumers who want the animals who provide their meat to be stunned first from making an active choice and is wrong.
I want the animals that provide my meat to be stunned first, as being the most humane way of killing the animals that provide my food - short of becoming a vegetarian, which I have no wish to do, this is the very least we should do, along with ensuring that rearing conditions are also as humane as possible.
This religious nonsense that deems meat somehow impure because it may have died just prior to being bled invades our standards of humane treatment of animals, and is wrong. This is an example of a religious freedom trampling all over secular logic and rationality, and I think should be resisted.
LG, I must confess that I had assumed that animals were stunned prior to halal slaughter as I could not see any reason why they should not be. I had however overlooked the inherent irrationality of religion . That so many animals should suffer such a terrifying and let’s face it unnecessary experience because of a piece of religious dogma is appalling. The laws on prevention of cruelty to animals appear to have been compromised to satisfy the demands of a primitive and cruel religion that has no place in the modern world. This is a good example of how a minority's beliefs impact on non-believer's lives and on the deaths of animals which deserve perhaps a little more respect and kindness..
In the 19th Century didn't many Christian missionaries accept the risk of the cannibal's cauldron as a price worth paying to bring enlightenment to pagans and heathens? They wanted to offer Christianity to the world.
The people who would try to bring the gift of Islam to the world aren't very different.
I accept I was wrong to think, even for a minute, that any of the goodly Godless habitués of R&S would ever see merit in any religion.
The people who would try to bring the gift of Islam to the world aren't very different.
I accept I was wrong to think, even for a minute, that any of the goodly Godless habitués of R&S would ever see merit in any religion.
//In the 19th Century didn't many Christian missionaries accept the risk of the cannibal's cauldron as a price worth paying to bring enlightenment to pagans and heathens?//
Sorry but I can't resist.
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?"
Sorry but I can't resist.
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?"
vulcan; I have been previously admonished for quoting the glorious products of Islam as being only things of the past, and so it is fair to say that though there has been undoubtedly excesses by Muslim extremists of the 'Convert or die!' kind, but that was also in the past. I believe you need have no fear of your "Total annihilation", which is not the Muslim agenda.
Having said that, Muslims would seem to prefer their religion to be adopted by acceptance, similarly just as we once tried to Christianise the world.
Having said that, Muslims would seem to prefer their religion to be adopted by acceptance, similarly just as we once tried to Christianise the world.
Khandro, //there has been undoubtedly excesses by Muslim extremists of the 'Convert or die!' kind, but that was also in the past. //
Was it? How do you work that out?
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Was it? How do you work that out?
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